Panama 2-1/2 centesimos coins, two types?

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Hi everyone, I wanted to propose separating these coins into 2 different types, as the legend varies and I think that is reason enough to separate these coins into two types:

KM 7.1 (1907) legend "TWO AND A HALF CENTESIMOS"
KM 7.2 (1916 and 1918) legend "TWO AND A HALF CENTESIMOS"

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2984.html

What do you think?
Coin referee for: Andorra
Banknote referee for: Spain and Andorra
I support the split but the suggested legend translations don't help as they are the same. What's needed is
KM 7.1 (1907) legend "DOS Y MEDIOS CENTÉSIMOS DE BALBOA"
KM 7.2 (1916 and 1918) legend "DOS Y MEDIO CENTÉSIMOS DE BALBOA"
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"​I support the split but the suggested legend translations don't help as they are the same. What's needed is
​KM 7.1 (1907) legend "DOS Y MEDIOS CENTÉSIMOS DE BALBOA"
​KM 7.2 (1916 and 1918) legend "DOS Y MEDIO CENTÉSIMOS DE BALBOA"
​Oops, it's true, I wanted to write the legend in Spanish and, by mistake, I have written it in English. Thank you so much for the correction...
Coin referee for: Andorra
Banknote referee for: Spain and Andorra
I agree with the split, too.

It is funny to see such a grammar - error on a coin : "dos y medios" ("two and halfs") makes no sense; this was for sure the reason the type was changed/corrected.
Pecuniae imperare oportet, non servire
Hello all,

I am not against the splitting of this page. However, splitting the page based on a one letter difference seems a little trivial. If one could provide other instances of this kind of split, I would feel more comfortable with this request.
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.

Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 and Free Palestine 🇵🇸!
We split these two coins:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6006.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6003.html
on the basis of a single letter difference. Does that help?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Yes it does, I'll get to work on it.
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.

Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 and Free Palestine 🇵🇸!
Hello We have guidelines for this situation, sections 3.1.1 and 3.1.2.

We split coins based on different legends (i.e. different words, for example "Philippe I" vs "Philippe": the letter in this case stands for an extra word, "the first")

We do not split based on punctuation, layout (legend splits), or abbreviations.
In this case, I think "medio" and "medios" stand for the same word, just an unusual spelling, so I don't think there should be a new page for these.
Surely this is a error caused by the US mint not understanding Spanish. Perhaps a better comaprison would be these two Jordanian coins:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces21721.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11512.html
where the only difference is the "s" wrongly removed from the first type by English speakers who didn't know that "fils" was the singular as well as the plural.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Here is another example of a coin page being split based on the value being singular or plural:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces565.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces566.html

In this case, I think that the change from "MEDIOS" to "MEDIO" is significant enough to warrant a separate page.
Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN, and SLV.

Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de CRI, GTM, HND, NIC, PAN y SLV.

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦 and Free Palestine 🇵🇸!
As I understand it, the difference with the Greek coins was the use of a modern form of the plural. Nevertheless, it shows how small spelling differences are enough to split types.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
These pages you've found were created before we had the guidelines.

The problem with splitting pages based on spelling is that we will end up with dozens of pages for some types like these:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces99494.html
Where Leodegar is spelled "Lvdigar", "Lvdegar", "Leodegar", "Leodigari" etc.

Also, on ancient coins the same legend can appear in many different spellings and abbreviations HERC/ HERCUVL/ HERCVLI/ ERC/ ERCUL, all standing for the same word, and splitting these will result in chaos.

So for the coin in question in this thread, we should only split it if these are two different words. If it's just about a different spelling for the same word or an error, it should stay on the same page.
Are you seriously suggesting the Greek coins should be merged? I agree when it comes down to errors on individual dies (things like CNIQ), a separate page isn't warranted but when a country chooses to make a change, surely that is significant, even if it's only a few letters. The Panamanian and Jordanian coins are somewhere in between these two extremes. The reason for the difference is that KM assigns separate numbers in the Jordanian case but these two Panamanian coins are KM#7.1 and KM#7.2 (although both are pictured). That's no reason at all for us not to separate them.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"​Are you seriously suggesting the Greek coins should be merged? I agree when it comes down to errors on individual dies (things like CNIQ), a separate page isn't warranted but when a country chooses to make a change, surely that is significant, even if it's only a few letters. The Panamanian and Jordanian coins are somewhere in between these two extremes. The reason for the difference is that KM assigns separate numbers in the Jordanian case but these two Panamanian coins are KM#7.1 and KM#7.2 (although both are pictured). That's no reason at all for us not to separate them.
​Totally agree. Nothing to add.

Anyway, lately I have not found excessively positive things in the decisions that are made by the Numista team (it must be me that I am going through a bad time ...) 8~
Coin referee for: Andorra
Banknote referee for: Spain and Andorra
Quote: "ceh2019"​Are you seriously suggesting the Greek coins should be merged?
​When have I suggested this?

My comment regarding pages preceding guidelines is because we should use the guidelines as reference, and not other pages. Many pages on Numista are not good examples to follow (outdated, wrong, mistakes, etc). The 5 drachms pages are actually a bad example because the obverse and reverse are switched. I can aso find many pages in which different legends are on one page. E.g. this one with different spellings of the currency:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces22966.html

So, as I've already said: different pages are created only for different legends (i.e. different words in the legend, ignoring abbreviations, punctuation, layout, etc)

So re. the 5 drachms, I don't know Greek, but my understanding is that it is an archaic form, and (at least in the languages I know) archaic forms are different words. E.g. "thou" (archaic) and "you" have different entries in a dictionary. Different words = different legends = different pages.

And I quote myself for the coin in question: we should only split it if these are two different words. If it's just about a different spelling for the same word or an error, it should stay on the same page. If we can confirm what "medios" is (a mistake, an old spelling, an archaic form), we can decide if there should be a new page for this.
I'm glad I misunderstood you regarding the Greek coins. Perhaps you could address the similarity between the Panamanian 2½ centesimios and the Jordanian 1 fil/fils? Clearly "MEDIO" and "MEDIOS" are different words, so that test is passed. As I said earlier, this isn't an error that occurred for a short period during a larger production run. All the 1907 coins have "MEDIOS". It was only 9 years later that the "MEDIO" type was produced.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

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