Copper bullion

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Does anyone collect copper bullion rounds or bars? Do you think it is as good an investment as silver bullion?
I've got two rounds and a little over $10.00 face value in 95% copper pennies. I don't know if it is as good as silver but there is definitely a market for it.
I have been wanting a couple of the copper bullion rounds just to add to my collection. I haven't found the right one yet.
the only copper bullion i collect is when i strip pipes out of peoples central heating systems !
Quote: Mark240590the only copper bullion i collect is when i strip pipes out of peoples central heating systems !
 Yes Mark, I also find lots of copper and brass that I collect, I probably have about $1000 after years of collecting.  I use some for my art, www.redsmithstudios.com and the rest is scrap, waiting for copper to double.
  I keep every pre 1982 penny I find, I roll them up and put them in my coin safe to help weigh it down.
 I would never buy a copper round, unless it was a 1797 cartwheel penny.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins
I weigh all my scrap in at Xmas - normally usually I get about £500, however this year I won't be weighing anything in as it's been extremely tight !
Quote: Mark240590I weigh all my scrap in at Xmas - normally usually I get about £500, however this year I won't be weighing anything in as it's been extremely tight !
Over here in my neck of the woods thieves are stealing the pipes out of summer homes. Scrap is big here because of all the folks struggling.
Chuching!
Quote: k2dof
Quote: Mark240590I weigh all my scrap in at Xmas - normally usually I get about £500, however this year I won't be weighing anything in as it's been extremely tight !
Over here in my neck of the woods thieves are stealing the pipes out of summer homes. Scrap is big here because of all the folks struggling.
There will always be thieves whether people are struggling or not.
Yeah we've had it for years here, I worked on new housing building sites and we were constantly replacing pipes in houses so they switched to completely plastic. Then they started climbing 4 storey flats ripping the lead off...
Everyone is a scrap man these days it's just not on! Why because people struggle they feel the need to turn into thieves !
Quote: coinsoldier

Does anyone collect copper bullion rounds or bars? Do you think it is as good an investment as silver bullion?
Copper is good if you are optimistic about the world economy (as it is an industrial metal).
That being said the copper rounds and bars are ridiculously overpriced in relation to their melt value. You will typically have to pay a premium of several hundred percent.
Silver rounds and bars have a premium of 5-50% making them a much more sound investment, especially in a receding economy.
On November 23, 2012 copper was worth Copper $3.5148 per pound = 22 cents per ounce. You can usually buy 1 ounce .999 copper rounds by the 1000 for approximately 55 cents to 60 cents per ounce. This makes it $550.00 to $600.00 per 1000 one ounce .999 copper rounds. If you have to get 1000 ounces (62.5 pounds) of copper rounds shipped to you, it can cost between $100.00 and $200.00 for shipping depending where you live, This incereases the total cost (including shipping) for each 1 ounce .999 copper round to between 65 cents and 80 cents per coin. In conclusion, if you buy your copper rounds direct by the 1000, they will cost 3 to 4 times bullion value. Most dealers are selling these 1 ounce .999 copper rounds for 10 times to 25 times bullion value.
Quote: coinsoldierOn November 23, 2012 copper was worth Copper $3.5148 per pound = 22 cents per ounce. You can usually buy 1 ounce .999 copper rounds by the 1000 for approximately 55 cents to 60 cents per ounce. This makes it $550.00 to $600.00 per 1000 one ounce .999 copper rounds. If you have to get 1000 ounces (62.5 pounds) of copper rounds shipped to you, it can cost between $100.00 and $200.00 for shipping depending where you live, This incereases the total cost (including shipping) for each 1 ounce .999 copper round to between 65 cents and 80 cents per coin. In conclusion, if you buy your copper rounds direct by the 1000, they will cost 3 to 4 times bullion value. Most dealers are selling these 1 ounce .999 copper rounds for 10 times to 25 times bullion value.
Truly copper rounds are not a good investment if you are ever going to make a profit. If you keep the pure copper pennies and such then you can make a profit but other than that, even if you buy them by the 1000 you will still never make a profit if you are just selling them on bullion value. If you buy the rounds buy the 1000 with a design on them, people will buy it for its look, not bullion value. I have a couple 1 ounce rounds and two 1/2 pound bars. But I bought them for their look. Getting copper pennies for face value and selling them for copper value, is a way to make a profit in copper bullion.
unless you get copper in the amounts i used to on a weekly basis, when youre 80 you might have £400 :( lol
Quote: Mark240590the only copper bullion i collect is when i strip pipes out of peoples central heating systems !
As an electrician; In my days of gutting and stripping old wiring from large commercial and industrial projects, not to mention the tailings off the new stuff going in, good days average added up to over a few hundred kilos/pounds PER WEEK...  Translation = $$$$$$

Those days are gone for us as copper scrap price has risen so high, wire is ordered to the foot, without an inch left over to spare as a bonus for the men.. And anything old that is stripped out usually gets claimed by the bosses as profit for the company..   

I will NEVER see that amount of money from hoarding or collecting copper coins... But I still do it anyways because I love the coinage and the metal. And hate that they have removed it from the penny.. I would never buy copper rounds, unless it was because of a design I liked....

Just as redsmithstudios said it best, the only one's I will be buying are 1797 cartwheel's  :D   
So many coins... So little time...
It's a lot more of a pain for you stripping the wire though lol even though it's a purer copper !

We even get kits sent out now by bigger companies, 3 storey house 2 ensuites and a bathroom with 2 showers, one bag of 22mm inserts (pipe liners for plastic pipe).  
Kits aren't all they are cracked up to be!
Quote: harry213Just as redsmithstudios said it best, the only one's I will be buying are 1797 cartwheel's  :D
I have two for sale! PM me if you like.
I don't do a trade but it's surprising how much copper you can come by if you keep your eyes open. I have dragged a couple of old lawnmowers out of the local burn this week (for non-Scots that's a river). I have collected up a bit whilst helping a friend do work in his house plumbing and wiring. But it's also surprising that there are people throwing it in skips - so this year I have managed to make £240 from scrap copper which I think is pretty good.
haha we have a small burn in shields maybe i should go check it out :S
Quote: bookshelfI have been wanting a couple of the copper bullion rounds just to add to my collection. I haven't found the right one yet.
I found a source where I can get one pound copper bars @ $6.75 USD per bar or 100 one pound bars for $600.00 USD. Does this sound like a great deal?
Quote: coinsoldier
Quote: bookshelfI have been wanting a couple of the copper bullion rounds just to add to my collection. I haven't found the right one yet.
I found a source where I can get one pound copper bars @ $6.75 USD per bar or 100 one pound bars for $600.00 USD. Does this sound like a great deal?
Lets do the math.

Last I checked copper was at $3.69 U.S. dollars per pound.
Here's what runs through my mind as way better alternatives than buying copper bars at $6.75 U.S. per pound........ Nearly double it's bullion value.....

U.S. pennies containing copper are still found in circulation. I can still pick and hoard as many as my free time will allow me @ face value....

Approx. 3 rolls of U.S. copper cents from circulation = 1 lb. and @ $1.50 U.S.
Of course you have to factor in the labor it takes to pull them from circulation. But the reward is in obtaining  nearly 3 cents in copper bullion for every 1 cent you collect.

Another option is to simply buy a load of copper cents that someone else has labored to collect. For example  $25 face value sells on Ebay for roughly $50... if you add shipping you can still get it @ under $4 per pound. Close to bullion value.

Third option is to go down to the local recycling yard and purchase copper scrap for still under $4 per pound. Close to bullion value.

I personally don't see when there will ever be a point in time when buying copper bullion (whether it be bars or rounds as if it were gold or silver), will ever be profitable. Or even worth while considering the tonnage required to gain a profit.

In the meantime I can only suggest buying copper in the form of collectible coins. At least this way you will have something of value whether copper prices climb or plummet.



     
So many coins... So little time...
Harry213
You make some great points.
I like the look of this one, so I picked up a handful and used them as interesting bonuses for some of my larger private coin swaps. As far as real bullion (Ag, Au) is concerned, I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't gov't issue.

About two months ago I decided to start collecting pre-1982 Canadian pennies for their copper value... doing pretty good so far, the pictures here show what I have been able to snag out of circulation.. The nickle roll gives a size comparison.

          

Like others have said, there is plenty of copper pennies in circulation!
Quote: aswitzerAbout two months ago I decided to start collecting pre-1982 Canadian pennies for their copper value... doing pretty good so far, the pictures here show what I have been able to snag out of circulation.. The nickle roll gives a size comparison.

          

Like others have said, there is plenty of copper pennies in circulation!
Nice hoard!
Quote: aswitzerAbout two months ago I decided to start collecting pre-1982 Canadian pennies for their copper value... doing pretty good so far, the pictures here show what I have been able to snag out of circulation.. The nickle roll gives a size comparison.

          

Like others have said, there is plenty of copper pennies in circulation!
Now that's the best way I know to hoard copper.... And if you ever feel you no longer want to hoard and need to cash out... Simply drop them off at the bank and get 100% of your investment back... Or find another collector/hoarder that will give you a premium for them... :D

And by the way, since you mentioned Nickels, the older Nickels contain more Nickel than their face value so hoard them too..... B)  
So many coins... So little time...
Since you mentioned the older nickles (pre-1982), here are some pictures of my stash of those nickles. Been doing the same thing with these as with the pennies... just searching through rolls! The nickle roll is there again for size comparison... for some reason though I feel like the pictures make the jars look small lol. The big jar has got to weigh at least 35lbs...

    

I seem to have roughly the same amount of pre-1982 nickles as I do pennies... been collecting them for the same amount of time so there appears to be the same abundance of old nickle and copper coins circulating.
Quote: aswitzerSince you mentioned the older nickles (pre-1982), here are some pictures of my stash of those nickles. Been doing the same thing with these as with the pennies... just searching through rolls! The nickle roll is there again for size comparison... for some reason though I feel like the pictures make the jars look small lol. The big jar has got to weigh at least 35lbs...

    

I seem to have roughly the same amount of pre-1982 nickles as I do pennies... been collecting them for the same amount of time so there appears to be the same abundance of old nickle and copper coins circulating.
:D Very nice hoard... I also get the impression that they look smaller in the phot than they really are. By the way I notice what appears to be a USB microscope in the background, I have the same model, Digi Micro?

By the way I also forgot to point out that the U.S. stopped making the 95% copper (bronze) penny in 1982, but didn't Canada continue until 1996?.... You may also want to check the compostion of the Nickels for Canada I beleive they were also made of Nickel until the 90's before they switched to steel. Also some earlier years of Canada nickels were steel.

Other than that, after seeing your photos, makes me want to start up my hoarding again  :D
So many coins... So little time...
Thanks! And yea that is a Digi Micro... got it off Colonial Acres Coins a couple months ago when they had a sale. I was having trouble using a hand-held microscope... was hard getting focus on small areas, so I splurged on a digital one :) It is awesome, how have you liked it?

You are right, also, that Canada does have copper pennies till 1996 but with a slightly lower copper %. I am not sure why I haven't been hoarding them too... should start and just keep them separate. Canadian nickles between 1982-1996 have some nickle content but as of right now the nickle content of those years is worth less than 5cents... may be more one day though :P

I noticed that on this site that the 1982-1996 Canadian Pennies are listed as being made of Bronze and not Copper... maybe someone who can edit coin pages wants to take a look at that.

*Edit*

Also, went through a box of pennies today and found roughly 450 pennies dated between 1965 and 1981. Not bad, also about 40 pre-1965 pennies.
Quote: aswitzerI noticed that on this site that the 1982-1996 Canadian Pennies are listed as being made of Bronze and not Copper... maybe someone who can edit coin pages wants to take a look at that.
http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/WorldCoinPrices.aspx?category=13&worldcoinid=119&FromSearch=true

   Bronze is what that page says too, so Numista (page below) is correct. I think pure copper would be too expensive, especially to make a 1 cent coin, so tin is added to make bronze.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces427.html
Haha... thanks ZacUK... I knew that those pennies had copper and tin but last night when I was writing that post I must have had a brain fade and forgot those two metals make bronze lol.
Quote: aswitzerThanks! And yea that is a Digi Micro... got it off Colonial Acres Coins a couple months ago when they had a sale. I was having trouble using a hand-held microscope... was hard getting focus on small areas, so I splurged on a digital one :) It is awesome, how have you liked it?

You are right, also, that Canada does have copper pennies till 1996 but with a slightly lower copper %. I am not sure why I haven't been hoarding them too... should start and just keep them separate. Canadian nickles between 1982-1996 have some nickle content but as of right now the nickle content of those years is worth less than 5cents... may be more one day though :P

I noticed that on this site that the 1982-1996 Canadian Pennies are listed as being made of Bronze and not Copper... maybe someone who can edit coin pages wants to take a look at that.

*Edit*

Also, went through a box of pennies today and found roughly 450 pennies dated between 1965 and 1981. Not bad, also about 40 pre-1965 pennies.
I absolutely love my Digi-Microscope camera. I got mine online for $26 U.S. and free ship from Newegg.com and have spent countless hours using it to photograph and examine coins in close up detail.

As ZacUK mentioned previously and is correct most older cent's are made of some combination of copper and tin making them Bronze. Over the years there have been changes in the composition but mainly they have been a high percentage of copper mixed with another metal. Until recent decades when copper has been almost completely removed from pennies and replaced with zinc or steel. :(

I hoard all pennies from the U.S. Canada and U.K. except those from newer years that contain steel and zinc  :x

450 coppers in a box is stellar, those are high percentages. The last time I did a box of pennies from the U.S. it was down to about 20% of them being copper. It is becoming increasingly harder to find them but they are still around. So get them while you can.
    
So many coins... So little time...
Yea true, even the 1965-1981 pennies have .5% tin content to the 99.5% copper content. I am going to start hoarding the 1982-1996 pennies now as well... I have a midnight shift tonight as work so I am going to search through another penny box and see if I can find more than 450 copper pennies now that I am hoarding more dates.

I find quite a bit of American coins during my searching... I keep all the wheat pennies I find, have almost 150 of them so far after all my searching.
Quote: aswitzerYea true, even the 1965-1981 pennies have .5% tin content to the 99.5% copper content. I am going to start hoarding the 1982-1996 pennies now as well... I have a midnight shift tonight as work so I am going to search through another penny box and see if I can find more than 450 copper pennies now that I am hoarding more dates.

I find quite a bit of American coins during my searching... I keep all the wheat pennies I find, have almost 150 of them so far after all my searching.
How can you work and search coins at the same time?
Well when I work a midnight shift it is mainly just being there that is important. I work at a group-home type of place for individuals with physical and/or mental disabilities and during the night they sleep but the organization is obviously required to have someone at the premises. They just have to have someone trained there to take care of anyone throughout the night if the need is there, which it very often is throughout the night. So coins keep me occupied until the next person wakes up and needs a hand :)
Well I just finished searching through the box and kept every penny pre-1997... here is a list of my findings:

Pre-1953 = 5
1953-1964 = 25
1965-1981 = 340
1982-1996 = 660

Also got 2 wheat pennies and another U.S. penny that has some rainbow toning on it... first one I seen with all the pretty colors lol.

So not a bad haul... Adding the 1982-1996 coins to my search is going to build up my copper hoard much faster!
So what do you do with the ones that aren't all copper?
So many coins... So little time...
I roll them back up and return them to the bank... what do you do with your non-copper pennies? I search through the 2005/2006/2007 pennies for the uncommon/rare ones within those groups but that's about it with the non-coppers...
Same here  :D
So many coins... So little time...
Haha ok cool, I thought you might have had some secret use for non-copper pennies that earned you a profit on them :P
Do you ever get any "attitude" from your bank?

I tried roll searching but gave it up as the effort / reward just wasn't appealing but my bank staff are very good about putting aside any JFK rolls they are sent or take over the counter.

I know that most committed roll searchers get the coins from one bank and deposit the re-rolled coins at another. I always wondered if it was to avoid getting your own coins back or to avoid annoying the tellers.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
I never really get any attitude from any tellers. Although I do, as you said, pick up rolls from one bank and return them to a different one. I guess I do that for both reasons you listed, to avoid getting the same coins back (which I started to see happening at one point) and also to avoid angering the tellers. While they are usually very friendly when I go in, I am not sure if they would like me returning rolls and then asking to get other rolls... maybe not though.

The three banks in my area that I am a customer of have all happily taken my name and phone number in case they come across any different coins (50 cent, Nickle Dollars, etc.)... they don't get many though.
Well I neither returned them to the same bank or to a human teller. For the reasons mentioned, but also not to become known as the nutty guy that asks for boxes of pennies only to return them days later.  z)

In fact I never bothered to roll them back up.

I simply dumped them into a random coin counting machine, like those CoinStar machines that give you cash for coins, for a small fee of course... There are also banks, and credit unions that offer this service for free. But either way the coins are picked up by armored car service and taken to an undisclosed facility where they are sorted, counted, wrapped and redistrubuted..
So many coins... So little time...
How much of a % do those machines charge you? I seem to remember using one when I was a kid and it charged 15%... that is pretty high. Do you use those machines for just pennies?
Quote: aswitzerHow much of a % do those machines charge you? I seem to remember using one when I was a kid and it charged 15%... that is pretty high. Do you use those machines for just pennies?
It's been awhile but I think it was about 8%. However if you redeem it for a purchase at a participoating merchant (like a gift card), instead of cash, the fee might be waived..

No you can dump and redeem all of your unwanted coins in it and get cash. I would also use it to dump all my coins found while metal detecting. They were coins that were buried, usually dirty, ugly and discolored sometimes unrecognizable. I would get strange looks from tellers and store clerks when I tried spending them. z)  So it was worth the fee for me to be able to get rid of them discretely. Plus it was found money, so it didn't bother me to pay a fee.
So many coins... So little time...

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