silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:01
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Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:01
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Hello,
who can help me with this coin? Bought in Indonesia. Value?!
Front: Cow or bull with 7 stars & moon, unknown sign
Back: old man working on the sea or near mountains, unknown sign
around 4,5 cm ; 42 gramms, brown material
Thanks!
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:40
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Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:40
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It seems to be a medal rather than a coin.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
BizzoDoes
Joined: 22-Jan-2014
Posts: 996
Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:45
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Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 15:45
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With the shape of the moon (U shaped), it puts the coin somewhere near the equator.
But with the star above the moon, maybe Mauritania, considering that's their flag?
(Or am I reading too much into it?)
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I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 16:16
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Posted: 25-Aug-2016, 16:16
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Possibly it´s a medal. What sign is it? What does the signs mean?
It has been bought about 10 years ago in Banda Aceh, from a local person during Tsnunami help project.
It looks very old.
DonChori
Joined: 8-May-2012
Posts: 947
Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 00:47
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Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 00:47
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It's not from Indonesia. I can't understand the inscription but it is definitely Persian/Urdu, something like that, so it should be a medal from Iran/Pakistan/NW India area, I guess it is Iran.
I'm not orange and also in other things I'm not a Donald at all. DonChori like Don Felipe or Doña María, por favor.
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 01:09
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Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 01:09
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Exactly the problem I encountered, but looking at it again with fresh eyes, I read the name اسماعل (Ismael) on the last line in front of the old man. And just above, we probably have some name followed by بن (bin) = son (of). Therefore: "So-and-so, son of Ismael".
Also, ابر (if my reading is OK on the first line) means "cloud" in Persian. But representing a human on an older medal or coins seems unexpected if this is Islamic.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
DonChori
Joined: 8-May-2012
Posts: 947
Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 02:07
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Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 02:07
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Quote: "Camerinvs"Exactly the problem I encountered, but looking at it again with fresh eyes, I read the name اسماعل (Ismael) on the last line in front of the old man. And just above, we probably have some name followed by بن (bin) = son (of). Therefore: "So-and-so, son of Ismael".
Also, ابر (if my reading is OK on the first line) means "cloud" in Persian. But representing a human on an older medal or coins seems unexpected if this is Islamic.
Yes, I looks nearly like إبراهيم بن أسماعيل (Ibrahim son of Ismael) but it is not exactly this. I think the picture of a man is no problem, it not that old, maybe about 100 years, not (much) more.
I'm not orange and also in other things I'm not a Donald at all. DonChori like Don Felipe or Doña María, por favor.
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 02:29
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Posted: 27-Aug-2016, 02:29
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The depiction looks like Abraham about to sacrifice his son (Isaac, not Ismael) when the angel appears and stops him.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 11:31
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Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 11:31
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Monarch of Iran; Ismail b. Dschafar, around 925 (source: wikipedia) , maybe?!
Also I´m wondering about the material of the coin, with 42 gramms it´s very heavy.
I´m not entirely sure if it´s copper, I will check it tomorrow.
The way how the cow or bull is painted looks in my opinion older than 100 years. But of course i´m not sure.
silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 1-Sep-2016, 20:13
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Posted: 1-Sep-2016, 20:13
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Material is non magnetic, so it´s definitely no copper, it should be some kind of brass.
DonChori
Joined: 8-May-2012
Posts: 947
Posted: 1-Sep-2016, 21:49
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Posted: 1-Sep-2016, 21:49
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Copper is not magnetic.
The design does not look like an old coin/medal and the letters neither, that's why I said and say it's not (much) older than 100 years. If you know someone from Iran you should ask him/her to have a look at your medal, maybe that will help you. If you don't know anybody just ask a numista member from Iran.
I'm not orange and also in other things I'm not a Donald at all. DonChori like Don Felipe or Doña María, por favor.
silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 2-Sep-2016, 11:00
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Posted: 2-Sep-2016, 11:00
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Then it´s copper, because I compared it with a 1 Euro Cent coin wich is magnetic - just read that the one Euro Cent is iron with mantled copper^^ - No wonder
AmerSalmeh
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1687
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 00:52
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 00:52
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Quote: "Camerinvs"The depiction looks like Abraham about to sacrifice his son (Isaac, not Ismael) when the angel appears and stops him.
looks so to me
also I can read on the other side: israfel, jebrael, mekael (names of angels)
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Amer Salmeh
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 01:28
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 01:28
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Ah! I noticed three words ending with the same letters, but I thought it was یک rather than يل !
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
silver99
Joined: 25-Aug-2016
Posts: 6
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 20:03
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 20:03
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And what about the age? I think it´s older than 100 years because of the way how the motives are made. (The bull is a little bit round etc.) - I think if it would be only 1850/ 1900 - then the motives would be more modern styled and accurate. I think it´s at least 1650 / 1700 or older. - But of course I can be wrong and it´s only `old styled.´
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 20:11
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 20:11
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Quote: "silver99"And what about the age? I think it´s older than 100 years because of the way how the motives are made. (The bull is a little bit round etc.) - I think if it would be only 1850/ 1900 - then the motives would be more modern styled and accurate. I think it´s at least 1650 / 1700 or older. - But of course I can be wrong and it´s only `old styled.´
If you look at the way it was struck, especially the rim, it was most probably not struck before the 1800s. Personally I would be surprised if it was struck before 1900.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
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