Suggestion: Allow political discussion on Numista

38 posts

This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista

Status: Rejected
Upvotes: 3
Downvotes: 1

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I see nothing particularly wrong with this, as long as everybody can do it in a mature way. Perhaps we could modernise the rule against all political discussion?

Discussing world events can surely only be healthy, especially matters than pertain to collecting.
No way. This just cannot be here. It is not censorship, but exclusion.

If we would allowed it, then you would have to censor several things every day, only to being accused of something.
Catalogue administrator
Definitely no. This is too much dangerous.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Thing is, thousands of discussions take place daily on both message boards and in real life. We have a mature memberbase, so I don't see why our members are incapable of discussing stuff in a mature fashion too.

I'll admit I'm playing devils advocate a bit here, I can see both your points of view. But it's a matter of trust in people to be sensible about it.
The benefits would be significant worst than damages around this threads involving politics. There will be enough people to flame.
When it comes to politics, people are not rational. Definitely would be a bad move to allow political discussions here.

Will
So far zero votes and it's a no from me also. We have more than enough political BS in every other medium around, please let us keep our numismatic haven politics-free.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
no from me as well.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Definite No
Quote: "radrick007"​So far zero votes and it's a no from me also. We have more than enough political BS in every other medium around, please let us keep our numismatic haven politics-free.
​Completely agree with Rich, this is the only place that is politics free (mostly). So its a No from me

No one will ever remain "mature and calm", there are far too many opinions that will clash.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
In my opinion, Numista became too much politics.:x
Quote: "Cyrillius"​In my opinion, Numista became too much politics.:x
​You tell me, I was getting message about Abkhazia every two weeks. I just hope nobody will want it to go back to Exonumia, since it now has its own category.

By placing something on "country" list, we are making political decisions. That is why we eliminated it and added some neutral distinction.
Catalogue administrator
Sorry, but politics and religion are two topics that people just can't discuss reasonably, it just leads to heated arguments. I mean look at the Donald trump thread, it was only 10 replies long but there was already stating to be some inflammatory comments, like "Anyone who leaves the US for another country didn't deserve to live here in the first place."
Quote: "neilithic"​Sorry, but politics and religion are two topics that people just can't discuss reasonably, it just leads to heated arguments. I mean look at the Donald trump thread, it was only 10 replies long but there was already stating to be some inflammatory comments, like "Anyone who leaves the US for another country didn't deserve to live here in the first place."
:D Oh no, no DT here, or you will get thread calling for allowing political discussion locked for political discussion!

Without jokes - it is really bad idea.
Catalogue administrator
Damn, instead of collecting and study of coins, people rush to the title. In 20 years it will not matter! Well, remove all the word "country" Abkhazia, Karabakh, Transnistria, and... the Falklands, for example - to make sure not to offend anyone. X-D Leave only flags and names.
You really must be a glutton for punishment Oggy...As moderator, if you do allow political discussion you're going to be one very busy boy.
Quote: "Cyrillius"​Damn, instead of collecting and study of coins, people rush to the title. Yes in 20 years it will have value! Well, remove all the word "country" Abkhazia, Karabakh, Transnistria, and... the Falklands, for example - to make sure not to offend anyone. X-D Leave only flags and names.
​I hope how it is now angers the lowest ammount of people.

And neilithic is right, you would shoot yourself to the leg. ;)
Catalogue administrator
Personal I wouldn't want to say no but I will as it's to hard for people to differentiate between freedom of speech and hate speech. I'm sure if anyone wants to have political conversations they can do this through the messages system or through other privet chats.
Archaeology student and coin and medal collector
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Please, no! Numista is a place of respite from politics. One of the things I like about Numista, is that I have made friends with people that I entirely disagree with about the best way to run our country. If we can focus on the passion that we share, we often find decent, civil and honest people on the opposite side of every issue we care about.
Referee for Pre-Euro Ireland
I'd like to say yes but it will never work and will lead to much butthurt. What people mean when they say "tolerate political discussion" should be read as "tolerate political discussion that I agree with". "Politics" covers such a wide spectrum. Would you be OK with topics claiming the Holocaust or the Stalinist genocides were justified? If you answered "no" then you are pre judging the discussion and selecting "the truth".

How about a sensible compromise instead?

Let the ban on political topics remain but relax on making the subject anathema in any and all circumstances. We are here because of coin collecting which features a lot of politically slanted designs. History is basically just yesterday's politics. Where does politics end and history begin? It depends on current fashions - Napoleon = good, Hitler = bad, Stalin = who? (All three were considered by many to be the Anti Christ during their lifetimes) However we can safely say that current events are not yet history, not relevant to coin collecting except in almost intangible ways - example, how does the election impact the commodity market?

Whatever path is chosen please, please do not let it be dictated by the safe space dwelling SJWs typically found looking for new ways to be offended on US college campus grounds. If everything becomes racist, sexist or otherwise deplorable then we might as well just shut up and stop talking to each other.... which of course is the aim. I would wholeheartedly support a lifetime ban for anyone playing the race card.

If a subject arises which includes political elements leave it alone. If someone makes offensive political comments then deal with the transgression as you would with any other type of offensive comment, not because some punk kid can't tell the difference between disagreeing with the sentiment and pretending to be offended as he or she mass clicks the report button.

In closing let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Some years ago there was a topic on the subject of the Hakencruz or Swastika on coins. My contribution was a well thought out response on it's 12,000 year history, it's use by institutions ranging from the US Army to the Boy Scouts as well as on coins other than 3rd Reich issues, finishing with an observation that people should be more alarmed by the wars and massacres going on right now than a symbol of a long vanished regime. The entire post was deleted by Dear Leader and replaced by some silly text about how it was removed for "right wing extremist" whatever that means. I find such an action far more offensive than a picture of the Swastika in widespread use on 1920's aircraft as a good luck symbol. But that's just me, being cultured, refined, sophisticated, educated an' all. If you're looking for knee jerk compliance with academic trendiness then I'm not your man.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
It is illegal in some countries to even show Swastika. I am not sure about France, but regardless, I believe that was a reason.

We in Europe are much more moved by that. I can understand why for many outside Europe it is just a symbol (and you are right that it is) in here, it is viewed as symbol of death and suffering, and many people see it this way.

It is the same as if bear almost killed someone. That person would probably forever either hated bears or be afraid of them.
Catalogue administrator
Well I'm not suggesting that we allow swastika profile avatars or Hitler portraits. This ain't Stormfront baby!

I have (had, can't find it) a coin / token issued by the Boy Scouts of America in the 1930's which was centered around a Hakencruz design. Would you ban it from the catalog because someone might be offended? Better get ready to delete all those Soviet era coins with the hammer and sickle design.

We spent some time in the tribal reservations along the Appalachians last year and there was a large, informal exhibit of 19th century "Injun" clothing and artifacts many of which used the same design. It's so far removed from the Hollywood, buckskin wearing Jeff Chandler image it's a shock. I had a long and really interesting discussion with the organizers. I really have always gotten along well with Indians, I find them very dignified and likeable. The point we agreed on that it doesn't matter if some panty stealing frat boy is offended, they have a perfect right to not have their culture diminished by outside influences. I'd much rather see them wearing a 12,000 year old Hakenkruz symbol than dressing up like some grotesque cigar store Redskin to please white tourists.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
As I thought, sorry Phil, you did not understood me. I do not even know if you can, which has nothing to do with your wits of course. ;)

If that was on Boy Scouts token does not matter really. Problem is the fact that it is being presented as only a symbol. Yes, in fact it is, and the people were responsible for the crimes and not that tangle of lines.

For many people here, nazism and it's acts itself are presented by it. Swastika equals nazism here. That is why it is banned somewhere and why it is offending.

I am one of lucky ones. Grandpa was forced into slavery or (forced work, how they called it) for nazis, and survived. Grandma was almost killed in Allied airstrike on Vienna. (yes, she was Austrian, and of course, her relatives were forced to fight in Wehrmach - greatgrandpa deserted from Russian front and went into hiding)
Second grandma was witness to countless murders of Czechs in students dormitory turned prison and execution square.

For many of us here, that is symbol of horror and terror.

It is like we were selling toys of two scyscrappers crumbling down, and saying that many high buldings were demolished elsewhere and that it is normal view to see and it has no meaning as an act.
Catalogue administrator
Exactly. So I for example can not keep coins in the collection of Nazi Germany, it is against my upbringing. But this is my personal opinion and my own business. I do not propose to remove them from the catalog, the same would have been wildly. Also, and generally argue about fascism, nazism, communism, christianity or colonial possessions here on Numista - is useless, thankless job. It will not lead to anything good, only the quarrel of good and smart people.0:)
Meanings and connotations change over time, it's what the perception is now that matters.

Want an example? Gay used to mean happy, but if you walked down the main street of your town loudly proclaiming "It's days like this that make me feel so gay!" then you're going to get a lot of strange stares. The original meaning of the word gay has stopped being used because of the meaning that is used now.

It is exactly the same as the Swastika. It doesn't matter what the history of it was, today it's viewed as a symbol of hate. I daresay you would find that out if you turned up to a boy scout meeting waving a swastika flag, or if you posted swastika symbols on the forums here, even if you stated that you were just showing your Indian heritage.

But in saying that, I don't think that any numismatic material containing the swastika image should be banned from the site, list it on here and let people choose whether it is something they are happy to collect or not.
I'm all for it if people have probems or lack thick skin it's their problem. Let's do like Trump and say the hell with regulations.
Please, let's leave the political comments on Facebook and Twitter.
NO NO NO NO NO NO
My friends are good numismatic.  I like to make friends and share my hobby.
I collect for years, and mints. careful with these data in my swapping
It would not work.

Mature or not, tolerance is something that we all lack at some point. Even the ones that considered themselves as liberals would lack by ignorance. The most avid would state it as a dogmatic truth.
Everyone has a different background, each country has a different historical overview. Even each individual has their own point of view which clashes to some other´s approach.

I agree that would be interesting to comment something in the news, and that also may affect numismatics, but even that, at some point, would become tricky. We should keep it as it is.
No. No political comments on Numista. I want a hobby I can enjoy without reading any BS about politics. Most people are completely biased about politics anyway. You can't change them, and they can't change you. This is the last site I even comment on the entire web; mainly, because I can't stand keyboard warriors-go somewhere else and spout political views-not on a coin collecting site. This is a place to enjoy-not to argue, bloviate and debate. I recently made the mistake of just mentioning how a political election can affect precious metal prices and the thread exploded into an argument about politics. I will never even hint about politics on this site again, and stay away from people like the plague who like stirring the pot.
This would not end well, as someone would want to throw in there two sense into a political debate without even looking it up and creating a huge flare war.
Definitely NO for me...

Politics and religion are too delicate things to be discussed on Numista.

If you want to read awful things, lies, hate...use facebook ant twitter

But let us keep in peace on our numismatic site8)

Jean (from Paris)
Je ne collectionne que les euros, et notamment les commémoratives
Im against politics on Numista.
Best regards,
torin
I'm against politics on Numista, but sometimes it's impossible (or extremely hard) to discuss something (notably Transnistrian coins) without veering a bit (or a lot) into politics, and I'd rather not have to ban such conversations entirely.
Political viewpoints are subjective. Therefore, you will end up with differing views.

Not everyone can keep a level head and when disagreed with will start to throw stones.

I remember that the excellent World Coins Chat became a little politically charged and it didn't suit jokinen's earlier styled prose.

Politics is all about viewpoint and essentially some people and countries do not have political systems that match.

I like coin collecting, I am here for this reason.
No politics, please. It's a law on the internet that political discussions always end up in disrespectfull arguments. No moderating can prevent it.

We're here because we're interested in coins. We can get to know people from all over the world and learn mutually about each other's customs and habits. That's all we can and should do here to make the world a better place.

Quote: "ArnoV"​No politics, please. It's a law on the internet that political discussions always end up in disrespectfull arguments. No moderating can prevent it.

​We're here because we're interested in coins. We can get to know people from all over the world and learn mutually about each other's customs and habits. That's all we can and should do here to make the world a better place.

​++++++1
Je ne collectionne que les euros, et notamment les commémoratives

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