2017 Standard Catalogue of World Coins, help?

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Ok so for my birthday my amazing boyfriend bought me the 21st Century 2017 Standard Catalogue of World Coins 2001-Date. Now forgive me if I am wrong, but seeing as it's the 2017 version, and it says to date... I was under the impression that the Catalogue would feature coins up to 2017 or at least 2016 right? Wrong. The highest date I have seen is 2015 and they are rare. It mostly stops at 2014, so why buy the 2017 edition?? Can someone please enlighten me. Also, why are there mostly no values/prices for things except in UNC (MS60 or whatever they use). Hell most coins will not be UNC so why don't they give values for lower grades too like Fine or XF?
Several things. The 2017 catalog was published in May of 2016. Copy deadline was probably 4 to 6 months prior. Or end of 2015.

Please don't make a mistake and worry about pricing. The Krause is great for cataloging. Any pricing is out of date by the time of publishing. Also. With a catalog that covers the last 15 years or so it seems reasonable that most prices would be unc. If they showed any circ grades and prices they would just be face value.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
At the rate they are going, KM will finish the 2010s catalog by 2025. I don't see any reason to buy their 21st Century catalog before 2115.

If I were Krause, I would split the 20th and 21st Century catalogs into separate decades.
It's a shame cos it was such a beautiful thoughtful present off of my boyfriend and I guess I was excited, but I don't see why the produce the books so early if they don't have the info for the years they are boasting! I'd rather wait later (til the actual year) for the book so it actually has the stuff in.
Oh and can I sound so stupid to ask if Klaus is the same as the one I have? X
Well if you buy the 2015 version , you're gonna see coins up to 2012-2013.:D
Vixon Joyce,
If you look through the Numista website, you will also notice that there are many coins that do not have a recognised KM# reference number. I have hundreds of coins dated from 2001 that are not listed in Krause.
I was once informed that a member of the Krause team has to physically see the coin before its credited with its own KM#. Not sure if it is true.
When you look on other websites such as NGC, they also do not show all of the coins that are available.
I have just started to research a set of 24 coins from East Caribbean States commemorating 'Great British Military Leaders'. 2 dollars 2002-2004
I can only find three with KM#'s. Numista only have five listed.
So you can see the problem.
Do not be disappointed with the catalogue as it will be the same around the world, so everyone will know what you are talking about when exchanging coins.
Belated birthday greetings
I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1
It is common in publishing to date items far ahead of the actual publication date. Any publication with time-related material does it so that the publication can stay on sale longer. Often when you subscribe to a magazine you will get several back issues because they were dated, for example, July when published in May. Then you will have to renew sooner than you thought. So do not think Krause is alone in following a similar practice. Publishers have been doing it for a long time. I buy catalogs only about every 5 years and then usually buy one a year or two old for a big discount. The few newer coins I obtain can wait for assignment of a KM number.

Will
In another topic, I raised attention to the fact that pricing info in the online NGC World Coin Price Guide seems to be messed up completely since a few weeks.

Member Jesse replied that the same was signalled for the 2017 paper version of the catologue, see his post with a link to the editor's site:
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic57535.html#p475519

But it's great to have a reference catalogue at hand. And there's no use waiting a few years so that it will include more items, as there will be other newer items missing out again.
Actually, online reference bases, maintained by a community, such as Numista, are more capable of keeping up with the latest developments. New circulating coins and new years are available on Numista almost instantly, though less so for non-circulating stuff.
Hi to All - This is a message I posted in 2013

After trying for years to find a way to suggest correction to the Krause Catalogues, I finally found a way to make suggestions directly to the publisher. With the OK from the publisher, I share the various steps and links with you all.

These suggested corrections will be for coins and bank notes as they are published in the Catalogues. Any types of errors and changes can also be given here. It will however be necessary to register on the site for free, or you could purchase electronic access to the newest catalogues if you choose.

To explain to you how it works, I will use an example of an actual coin that needs to be corrected on the website and the printed catalogues.
• I have a South African 50 cent from 2002 with a diving cricket player on it.
• Looking through the catalogues I find there are two of these, KM276 and KM329 but they both have the date of 2003
• After comparing the languages, I realize that the one coin’s date in the catalogue is wrong, KM329 must be dated 2002.
• To suggest the change, I go to the website http://www.numismaster.com/
• Log in and then go to the button at the top that is called “Find my coin” and click on it
• Here you have to enter the information on the coin so it can be located on the website: Country and KM number should be enough, now click on "find my coin" inside the box
• On the next page, have a look at the information and ask yourself: Is the information on the website correct or not.
• If yes, the next catalogue will have the corrected information in and you do not need to suggest any changes.
• If the information is not correct, you can now suggest your corrections.
• Click on the small box left of the KM number and click on the button left bottom called “View selected Coin”
• You now see even more information about the coin.
• Click on the button, should be third from the left bottom, called “Suggest changes”
• The page opens where you can make the changes you would like to suggest.
• At the bottom there is also a comments field
• You can also upload the pictures to support your suggested changes, if need be.
• The click on the bottom “Send suggestion”
• And you are done.

I hope that we will all send our corrections to these great catalogues.
Ex-South African now living in Germany
Pcoetzee5, thanks for the info. You're talking about corrections for coins already listed in Krause. But how can we make suggestions about coins missing in Krause? And then I don't mean coins missing from recent years because we all know Krause is always a few years behind. But what about coins from 2005 or even 1999, still not listed in Krause?
I suppose they have the prices for only the high grades because the vast majority of modern circulation coins would only really be worth face value in the lower grades so it's not worth printing them, and the commemorative coins don't usually circulate so you wouldn't find them in the lower grades.
In the front of each Krause is a welcome to the new edition. It usually tells you where to send feedback, info on new issues, and corrections. From my experience the briefer and more focused a letter the better.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Numista is on track to outrank Krause by wide margin in several years. If we get Numista catalogue number, we could already be better than Krause in several categories(countries).
Catalogue administrator
Quote: "Jarcek"​Numista is on track to outrank Krause by wide margin in several years. If we get Numista catalogue number, we could already be better than Krause in several categories(countries).

​I am just wondering why not can be Numista itself to provide a identity code to each coin?
CirculableCoins
Krause catalog is the common standard used by coin collectors. It is world wide, in ways no other catalog is. For the time being. I gave no doubt that Numista will give them a run for their money but i think that is far far away. I have travelled all over and the standard reference or cd or label on a coin is the Krause Mishler number. Sure, single country catalogs are more detailed and better. But does anyone remember the brown book? RS Yoeman, writer of the famous US coin Redbook, had this book about world coins. It was improved upon by the Krause catalog.
In fact, I wish folks here could see how amazingly improved Krause catalogs are from when they first came out. I have all the catalogs.
Biggest problem seems to be that they are not as supported by staff as they used to be.
Not only do they still need support and submissions by contributors, they no longer have a new issues editor whose specific job was to generate the new KM numbers...multiple duties reside in far fewer workers nowadays.
I wish that the Krause catalog could be like the library of congress. Everyone automatically sends a copy of a new book to them...I wish that nations would automatically send technical and design data to Krause...and i wish Krause had manpower to implement it as it is recieved.
When you publish a catolog dated 2017 in the middle of 2016, and the deadline for submission is the end of 2015, you cant do to much with data from abc countries if you are already in the xyz part of the catalog...
I had a dream to go work there...They sold around the time the old new issues editor retired. I waited and waited for a job posting...
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "GiannaReggio"
Quote: "Jarcek"​Numista is on track to outrank Krause by wide margin in several years. If we get Numista catalogue number, we could already be better than Krause in several categories(countries).
​​
​​
​​I am just wondering why not can be Numista itself to provide a identity code to each coin?
​In time, there might be one.
Catalogue administrator
I wonder if the solution might be to try to engage with Krause in a sort of "partnership" arrangement? Clearly they should be nervous about accepting UGC directly onto their website (or into their printed catalogues) in case it compromises their reputation and integrity whilst we, too, would be wary of relying on this kind of unsupported data. It does seem to me, though, from the general level of disappointment raised here (and from my own recent experience) that there may already be a significant risk to this reputation - so what better way for them to address this than to engage (maybe on a professional basis) with their core market? Numista has substantial database and a proven method of expert verification so presumably Numista could work with them to supply curated data on a regular basis - supported by pre-agreed authenticity data (or photos) and perhaps they could supply discounted access to their catalogues to Numista members, or perhaps to make a modest financial contribution to the overall maintenance of the site, helping us to keep it going.

It does seem to me that Krause struggles far more with general circulation & commemorative issues than it does with "toy" money from the likes of Nauru, Niue etc - I'm guessing that these commercial mints are proactive in providing them with data; more proactive than non-commercial mints?

Rob
Quote: "Geronimo"​I wonder if the solution might be to try to engage with Krause in a sort of "partnership" arrangement?


​I like this!
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
Quote: "Geronimo"Numista has substantial database and a proven method of expert verification...





​Geronimo, do not take offense but please explain what our proven method of expert verification is?
I honestly do not see why Krause would want any form of cooperation, which would beneficial to numista too and not only to Krause. So they would probably tried to sideline numista as it is their doom in the long term.
Catalogue administrator
Hi,

I think that is exactly why they might look to co-operate with us. They must realise that as we become less and less satisfied with their products, the more likely we are to stop subscribing and to start joining up on a more professional basis ourselves and that would seriously threaten their commercial viability. Either that or there will simply cease to be any sort of co-ordinated approach to creating a catalogue of world coins. We are their core clients after all, and I also believe that Krause do take pride in what they do

We are a combination of experts and enthusiasts in languages, inscriptions, numerics and have access to lots of direct local sources that give us a very distinct advantage. They have the established place in the market, and a long established reputation. Surely it would make more sense to try to collaborate than to exclude?

R
Guys,

please don't forget, that numista is only here because of Xavier, don't forget numista doesn't really earn money, don't forget, that nobody is payed here, don't forget, that there is NO guaranty, that numista is here "for ever" or even next week!

At least we have a chance, that KM will be there, although with less and less staff...

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Oklahoman"​With a catalog that covers the last 15 years or so it seems reasonable that most prices would be unc. If they showed any circ grades and prices they would just be face value.

​I can't agree with this. If you are trying to buy any coin, even the last year of issue, it will cost more than face value in any numismatic shop in any place of the world. Even in the issuing country.

But these prices are still too unstable: whatever you write in the catalog, it will be wrong. And these prices differ significantly from country to country. Only older issues have more or less stable prices.
Maybe you should visit coin shops around the world. If you have a modern coin that is not unc it is usually found in the quarter bin at my local shop. A huge number of shops here in the midwest are similar.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "Oklahoman"​Maybe you should visit coin shops around the world. If you have a modern coin that is not unc it is usually found in the quarter bin at my local shop. A huge number of shops here in the midwest are similar.

​I've visited more than 300 coin shops all around the world :)
They will never put in the quarter bin anything that has a face value more than a quarter. You can find there, for example, 1 kopek of Russia with the face value of 0,02 US cents, but you will never find 5 soles of Peru or 2 franks of Switzerland.
And also, coins in these "cheapest" bins in different countries have different prices. In Singapore - 2 USD, in Russia - about 30 US cents, in Indonesia - about 7 US cents, etc.
Quote: "Oklahoman"​...But does anyone remember the brown book? RS Yoeman, writer of the famous US coin Redbook, had this book about world coins. It was improved upon by the Krause catalog.
​In fact, I wish folks here could see how amazingly improved Krause catalogs are from when they first came out. I have all the catalogs...

​Biggest problem seems to be that they are not as supported by staff as they used to be.
​Not only do they still need support and submissions by contributors, they no longer have a new issues editor whose specific job was to generate the new KM numbers...multiple duties reside in far fewer workers nowadays.

​If you mean by "the brown book" "A Catalog of Modern World Coins" by R.S. Yeoman (coins from 1850 to 1964), then I do remember it. Back in 1972 I bought the 10th edition and that was the very first catalog I ever bought, together with its successor "Current Coins of the World" by the same R.S. Yeoman (coins from around 1950 and later). For earlier coins I bought some time later "Coins of the World 1750 - 1850" by William Craig. These three were all catalogs with only types, no specific dates or mint marks or varieties and so one.
And then came Krause. What a difference. Krause not only covered the entire period of this three predecessors, starting from 1750 to date, but also gave specific year lines and mint marks for all the types.

I don't have all the catalogs like you (I have about 25) but when you look at the earlier editions, you can see it took quite some time before the KM# number became the standard. In the 10th edition (1984) most of the coins were still in Y# (Yeoman) or C# (Craig). Even in the 2017 edition there still are some countries with only Y# and no KM#. So starting a new numbering system of our own that will be accepted worldwide is surely not easy, nor rational because we already have such a system (KM#). It's used by every serious collector of world coins, all over the world. It might be not 100 % correct, but do we honestly believe if we would make a numbering system of our own that would be 100 % correct?
Goody goody! You have been in 300 coin shops around the world! But you speak in absolutes. And that is not the case. Unless a coin is unc it goes into poundage or a 5 for a dollar box. Although I will grant you that coins 50p or higher or for example 50 euro cent or higher, are saved for travellers. That is how the local coin shops are.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
I have certainly found coins in the bulk bins for less than their face value. I've bought quite a few Japanese 100 yen for about 20 cents each, and even a couple of 500 yen coins for less than a dollar each. Some dealers just aren't interested in taking the time to sort through all the modern circulated coins that they end up with when they buy people's collections.
But anyway you can't buy Russian 1 kopek for 0,02 cents, right?
20 or 25 cents is the cheapest price for any coin in your local stores? That is 1000 times more than the face value of a kopek.
By the way, it's only 11 April 2017 and edition 2018 of the Krause already exists. It seems they appear earlier every year:

An excellent reason why the valuations should be taken with a grain of salt.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
This question has led to an interesting discussion.

Krause is a internationally recognized company with lifelong professional experts paid for their work. They have a partnership with one of the biggest grading company in the world. Practically every professional in the numismatic community, and quite a few amateurs, own their catalogs.
Numista is owned by 1 person who pops in once every 3 to 6 months, and who could decide to shut it down or have harm befall him any day. Members who provide data may be very knowledgeable, but most are not lifelong professional experts and none are paid for this work; their activities here are bound to be temporary. The data verification system depends on a few people chosen almost randomly and is not consistent at all throughout the catalog.

Now don't get me wrong, I mean no offense to Numista or its hard-working members, it's a useful resource; still, reason dictates that it's not going to supplant Krause in any current member's lifetime. I don't see the need for a Numista catalog number, except as a placeholder for those coins that don't have a KM yet.
If the biggest grief against Krause is that they are 2 years behind in adding modern coins, well, I am not a proponent of the "release information now, check quality/accuracy later" current trend so that's not a big problem for me.
If the biggest grief against Krause is that the values are not reliable, I would submit that 1. Numista doesn't have values and 2. if/when Numista adds values, I don't see any reason why they would be more reliable than Krause's. Just because you can update data more rapidly doesn't make it more accurate.
So yes, Krause is flawed, knowledgeable members may have found errors in it, but it's the best universal catalog you're going to get and the best way to deal with its flaws is to improve it using the process described.
BryanJ,

I can only agree with you!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Totally agree too.
No offence towards Xavier because without Xavier there simply was no Numista and Numista is the best so I can only be very grateful towards him. But it's not healthy that the survival of Numista depends only on Xavier. There should be a backup plan if something should happen to Xavier to avoid Numista disappears with him. The latter is my worst fear.
Let Krause do what they are good at, even with their flaws, and let us do what we are good at, also with our flaws.
>when Numista adds values, I don't see any reason why they would be more reliable than Krause's

The problem is that for most modern coins there just can't be one price. Krause catalogs publish prices for the US market, in other countries these prices may be higher or lower. So if Numista, or anyone else, creates a database with a range of possible prices for the same coin in the same grade in different parts of the world, this information will be much more reliable. And this work can be done only by a large community - not by 1 or 2 editors.
Hi,

see also this thread: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic18669.html

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Hi,

this is also the "same" topic: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic56272.html

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "BryanJ"
... If the biggest grief against Krause is that they are 2 years behind in adding modern coins...
​These would be forgivable since there can not be a single price and there are publishing deadlines, however, Krause is inaccurate in their specifications of Ecuador KM# 116 and KM# 117, and continues to omit the 3rd and 4th coins in the bicentennial series dated 2011 and 2012. NGC certified coins exist for the entire series. See https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/ecuador/sc-104/sucre/ from 2009 SILVER INDEPENDENCE 200TH ANNIVERSARY to 2012 SILVER MANUELA CANIZARES
Miguel del Rio
Vixon, to give you a comparison, the "Red Book" is considered the collectors' bible for U. S. coins. The book is generally released around June of each year, and dated for the following year (the 2019 issue will hit the market in about 4 months), and the pricing data for the book was cut off at least six weeks ago.

The only reason that there are few complaints about the pricing, is because most dealers and collectors look to a weekly/monthly publication called the Greysheet, to monitor the wholesale market. No annual price guide can match that.

I lived in Chicago 2002-2015, and I have been on eBay since 1997, selling world coins. I submitted many photos and sales data to Krause, so they listed me on the Acknowledged Contributors page for a number of years. I traveled to Iola, Wisconsin three times (especially when they were preparing the Standard Catalog of German Coins), and, when the Chicago International Coin Fair was held, I invited employees from Krause to dinner at my home, along with members of the Everycountry Collectors Club. I tell you this so you will understand that I have been in discussions with them over some of these issues.

Their numismatic publication staff is a shadow of what it once was. From about 10 people--most of them collectors--their staff is now done to 3 or 4, of which only 1 or 2 are collectors.

Perhaps their biggest problem is getting timely, accurate information on new issues and values, from sources that they know and trust. They have a long-running association with Pobjoy Mint, so they stay fairly up to date on their new issues; and I know that Tom has been working on relationships with other major mints. They have dealers in various areas of the world that contribute information and pricing, but sometimes these have proven to be manipulating the prices they report. At other times, they have used auction prices, which can distort the prices, if the pieces are unusually nice or selling above market due to hype or pedigree.

I have been told that Krause once approached Schon about using his data on German coins, and he flatly refused to let them use any of his information.

I have seen several references to NumisMaster, which was the database that Krause had used to maintain the data to publish the catalogs. At one time, they had stopped using the webmaster for that website, so the data had been frozen. They were working on a new database, but had not made it available to contributors that last time I was contributing. (It was nice to be able to give them online suggestions for corrections, which their gatekeeper then reviewed and considered.)

Specific coins do not have the same value worldwide, due to local supply and demand. When I went to London in 1999, the dealers told me that the Krause prices were accurate, but the prices were in pounds, not dollars!!

Personally, I buy the 1901-2000 catalog every year, and buy the 2001-date catalog every other year or so. It takes Krause a while to catch up, and I do more with coins of the previous centuries (the catalogs for 1601-1700, for 1701-1800, and for 1801-1900 are not published every year.)

At one time, Krause periodically published new listings in its World Coin News newspaper. I do not know if they still do that.

Even with its flaws, it is a wealth of information for coins from all the world, by date and mintmark. It is a far cry from the pre-1972 days, when we used Craig (1750-1850) and Yeoman, which listed types only (with very few exceptions)--and they were not published every year.
Quote ​​I've visited more than 300 coin shops all around the world :)
​They will never put in the quarter bin anything that has a face value more than a quarter. You can find there, for example, 1 kopek of Russia with the face value of 0,02 US cents, but you will never find 5 soles of Peru or 2 franks of Switzerland.
​And also, coins in these "cheapest" bins in different countries have different prices. In Singapore - 2 USD, in Russia - about 30 US cents, in Indonesia - about 7 US cents, etc.
​Perhaps you have been to the wrong coin shops. I purchased a Japanese 500 yen for 1 Swiss franc in Switzerland coin shop, and purchased a number of Swiss 5 francs and 2 francs, and German 5 marks, from "5 for a dollar" boxes in the United States. It all depends upon what the dealer is willing to spend the time to identify--or what coins he knows he can normally sell to his customers.

A fifty cent box at a Dallas coin show once yielded 15 Puerto Rican tokens!
Quote: "Essor Prof"​By the way, it's only 11 April 2017 and edition 2018 of the Krause already exists. It seems they appear earlier every year:

​Every year a bit sooner. It's still February 2018 but here already is a 2019 edition:

Quote: "Essor Prof"​​Every year a bit sooner. It's still February 2018 but here already is a 2019 edition:

​I think they would gain a lot if they called this one for 2017 Standard Catalog of World Coins, instead of 2019, since then it would be very much up to date. Now, It's already outdated.
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