Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Name Change

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Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has formally change name to Republic of Artsakh (or simply Artsakh). Should this be changed in the Country list as well, or will that just lead to confusion and no one will find it?
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Will take this to next admin meeting, thanks! <:D
Catalogue administrator
The coins are still inscribed 'Nagorno-Karabakh Republic'.

Aidan.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​The coins are still inscribed 'Nagorno-Karabakh Republic'.

​Aidan.
​well, the inscriptions the coins won't change because the name of the country has change.
for example, there are coins in the swedish catalogues where is says "oscar ii king of sweden and norway", but the united kingdoms of sweden and norway ended in 1905, and "changed" hje name to the kingdom of sweden, and kingdom of norway. should these coins be listed together in a seperate catalogue then?
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If the name has changed, any new coins should bear the changed name. This is the case with stamps issued since April 2017, now reading Republic of Artsakh. It would be ridiculous to keep the previous official name once there is an official name change but Numista should not change until there is evidence the coin inscriptions have changed.

Will
Hi,

again I suggest to keep the things simple, the country name on the coin, is what you will try to look up in ANY catalog. I know my geography quite well, but don't change the numista name to Artsakh, since only a handfull of people will know that it used to be Nagorno-Karabakh OR make it possible for the coin to be found when searching for one or the other name.

You might know the country Malagasy? In numista it's still called Madagascar!

You might know Burma, but in Numista it's now called Myanmar!

So there is no logic in numista.

I still say, go for the names used in the KM catalogs, it's simple and it's easy and nobody becomes confused, when looking for a country!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Sjoelund"​You might know the country Malagasy? In numista it's still called Madagascar!
Well, like I said in my first post:
Quote: "ngdawa"Should this be changed in the Country list as well, or will that just lead to confusion and no one will find it?
​And Malagasy isn't the official English name for Madagascar, it's the official language in Madagascar, so I don't really see your point. Or are referring to the Malagasy Republic of 1958-1975?

About Burma, the Burmese name has always been Myanmar. Burma was the English colonial name - just as Ceylon (as in Dutch Ceylon, British Ceylon, and Dominion of Ceylon) was for Sri Lanka.
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In the future, country list page will get enhanced searc feature, meaning search for Artsakh would give you Nagorno-Karabach as well.

This will solve all dual naming issues (Burma) and would allow for some other tricks - search for USA would give United States and so on.
Catalogue administrator
If Nagorno-Karabakh Republic has formally change name to Republic of Artsakh we should create a new country called Republic of Artsakh and Nagorno Karabkh put under Artsakh, same situation was with Zair.

Republic of Zaire was the name for the Democratic Republic of the Congo that existed between 1971 and 1997

Regards,
Damian
Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921
+Hi,

Take it easy, don't create things (countries) just for your intellectual pleasure. Remember even a novice has to be able to find the proper country when typing in the name written on the COIN.... NEVER forget that, please?

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Only coins struck after a country has changed its name should be listed under the new name.

Aidan.
Aidan,

please show me an image of a coin with the new country name? Thank you!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Sjoelund"​+Hi,

​Take it easy, don't create things (countries) just for your intellectual pleasure. Remember even a novice has to be able to find the proper country when typing in the name written on the COIN.... NEVER forget that, please?

​Ole
​Ole, its not about that im only thinking about creating new countries. Just looking for right solution. Look how was it done with Zair. The DR Congo under regin of Mobutu Sese Seko was called Zair then was renamed to DR Congo. How this looks like in Numista ? Zair is issuer under Dr Congo which is correct. Same should be done here. Nagorno Karabkh should go as issuer under Republic of Artsakh. This should be done only if Republic of Artsakh mint coins under own name if not thing should stay as it is.
Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921
OK
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
By the way, Nagorno Karabakh "coins" with the date 2013 have nothing to do with Nagorno Karabakh. These are Chinese fantasies. I know it for sure because the Chinese badge factory contacted me before their issue to ask about the origins of the 2004 issue.
So, as we all know it' s a very subject when a country/territory changes its name. Many wants to keep calling them by their old, or even by their very old colonial, name. Burkina Faso is still referred as Upper Volta, by some.

Here, on Numista, we have the same kind of mix of people. I am trying to adopt to the new names, but to be honest, Eswatini will take time. But, as long as we respect the change, and use them in writing, at lease - since we think more when we wright, and we uses more reflexes when we speak, I reckon it's very important that we use the right terms for a country.

In April 2018 Swaziland changed its international name to Eswatini, so get rid of the colonial vibes. The name didn't get changed here until someone could prove that there was a coin minted with the name Eswatini on it. This was in August 2020 - 2 years and 4 months later. Yay! :D

In June 2018 FYR Macedonia changed its official name to North Macedonia (to make its relationship with Greece a little softer). The change on Numista came in February 2019 - despite there's no coin or banknotes bearing the new name - Severna Makedonija - and it probably never will either.

In February 2017, there were a referendum in the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh where 87.6% voted for a name change to Artsakh Republic. It's not certain that the Republic will issue any coin or banknotes in the near future, so should we stick with the old name, or respect the 87.6% of its population, and change it to Artsakh? One could argue that Nagornor-Karabakh still remaines as an official name, but this is probably just a transition period to make people used to the new name. So, is it time to look forward, or should we stay in the past?
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
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Noted, thank you!
Catalogue administrator
Quote: "Jarcek"​Noted, thank you!
​Thank you!
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This should be fixed, and of course, searchable by both.
Catalogue administrator
Quote: "Jarcek"​This should be fixed, and of course, searchable by both.
​Awesome, cheers!
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Hello.
It is a rather odd and inconsistent step to apply self-names for countries to the catalog.
I will just note that the official name of Transnistria is Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic.
The official name of Russia since 1991 is the Russian Federation.
Is this better for our catalog?
Artsakh... Well, good luck to the members in their search.

But please note that I do not want to argue and do not ask to change anything.
It is still searchable under Nagorno Karabakh
Catalogue administrator
Quote: "Cyrillius"​Hello.
​It is a rather odd and inconsistent step to apply self-names for countries to the catalog.
​I will just note that the official name of Transnistria is Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic.
​The official name of Russia since 1991 is the Russian Federation.
​Is this better for our catalog?
​Artsakh... Well, good luck to the members in their search.

​But please note that I do not want to argue and do not ask to change anything.
​I understand what you're saying and respect that people will disagree. The thing is that the sooner we adopt new names, the faster people will leatn them. People are ralking galking about Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia as if they were still existing countries. If we jusg accept and adapt, there won't ve a problem. Just give it a year. People are already referring to North Macedonia, instead of just Macedonia.

But as with Eswatini, the old names are still searchable.
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I would like to know how we should treat self-names for other countries?
My previous remark about Transnistria was without comment.
or example, what to do with Georgia / Sakartvelo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)
Why is Artsakh better than Sakartvelo?
Georgia doesn't give to many f***s about its exonyms like a "normal" healthy country should.
Quote: "ngdawa"​So, as we all know it' s a very subject when a country/territory changes its name. Many wants to keep calling them by their old, or even by their very old colonial, name. Burkina Faso is still referred as Upper Volta, by some.

​Here, on Numista, we have the same kind of mix of people. I am trying to adopt to the new names, but to be honest, Eswatini will take time. But, as long as we respect the change, and use them in writing, at lease - since we think more when we wright, and we uses more reflexes when we speak, I reckon it's very important that we use the right terms for a country.

​In April 2018 Swaziland changed its international name to Eswatini, so get rid of the colonial vibes. The name didn't get changed here until someone could prove that there was a coin minted with the name Eswatini on it. This was in August 2020 - 2 years and 4 months later. Yay! :D

​In June 2018 FYR Macedonia changed its official name to North Macedonia (to make its relationship with Greece a little softer). The change on Numista came in February 2019 - despite there's no coin or banknotes bearing the new name - Severna Makedonija - and it probably never will either.

​In February 2017, there were a referendum in the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh where 87.6% voted for a name change to Artsakh Republic. It's not certain that the Republic will issue any coin or banknotes in the near future, so should we stick with the old name, or respect the 87.6% of its population, and change it to Artsakh? One could argue that Nagornor-Karabakh still remaines as an official name, but this is probably just a transition period to make people used to the new name. So, is it time to look forward, or should we stay in the past?
These appear to be legit NCLT. They do not have the name Severna Makedonija ​but do have the name Republic of North Macedonia. What do you think.

https://www.nbrm.mk/ns-newsarticle-soopstenie-1012020-en.nspx
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I would like to know how we should treat self-names for other countries?



​Hello,

I think for current, internationally recognized states, we use The World Factbook:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Factbook
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/
Therefore Georgia, Russia, etc.

For self-proclaimed states, it's a bit trickier. Probably the best way is to look at the name they use in international relations such as UN acts.

E.g. Artsakh:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/B-9-2020-0446_EN.html

Transnistria:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+IM-PRESS+20061020IPR11906+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=FR

We also link all our countries to Wikidata, which is generally consistent with the sources mentioned above. (Transnistria, Russia, etc)

There are nevertheless occasional inconsistencies (e.g. "Czechia" in the World Factbook and "The Czech Republic" in Wikidata). For these... we just pick one I suppose.

Best regards
:wiz:
If I can search the name of the country written on any given coin (without special characters) in numista, I don't care, if not I'm against it with all my power.
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I would like to know how we should treat self-names for other countries?

​All countries are self named, right? No one has invaded, or visited, a country an proclaimed "I will call you 'North Lake Land'".
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Countries have mostly one endonym and whole bunch of exonyms.
Germany for example is one of the few where an exonym is older (survived in historic sources) then its endonym.
I found the current arrangement confusing.
I think the best solution is to lis Nagorno-Karabakh under the new name as Ceylon Is Issued under Sri Lanka
that way coins issued under the old name can be easily found and can be distinguished from coins issued under the new name
Quote: "jakse"​I found the current arrangement confusing.
​I think the best solution is to lis Nagorno-Karabakh under the new name as Ceylon Is Issued under Sri Lanka
​that way coins issued under the old name can be easily found and can be distinguished from coins issued under the new name
​I see your point, but if you search "Nagorno-Karabakh" you'll find Artsakh. ;)
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At least put the old name maybe in brackets.
As an unsuspected user I would be confused if I type Nagorno what not and Artsack pops up.

Type: Nagor...
Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh)
I live in France and saw in the covid-free past plenty of cars with GB shields for Great Britain, although numista has determined that those cars should have a shield with UK.

At least I can now search Great Britain in numista and I end up with UK. Where is the logic to that? Numista is overdoing that, but has NO solution to creating new KM#? In my opinion it's more important. Now the French site has decided to use a singular number (French of course, vive la France) for each year of a coin and the KM# is "forgotten", that's a decision which was not discussed across the the two sites.

If F# are different for each year, then why don't we have a documentation of the WHY? How can a French coin now be a variant, when it already has a different # or can the same year have different # (documentations please to proove it???).

I think the referees and Xavier should take a quiet Skype conference and plan the future of this site, sorry, but it's getting more and more confusing to follow the "improvements" and "politics" of the the "top of the pyramid".
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Ole"At least I can now search Great Britain in numista and I end up with UK. Where is the logic to that?
Here you lose my a bit because the UK is the more "right" term or are you a NI forgetter (the unionist terrorists want to know your location)? Also what the Brits put on there number plates should be of no concern (GB here is short for Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is the UK). Reddit post
Quote: "Idolenz"​At least put the old name maybe in brackets.
​As an unsuspected user I would be confused if I type Nagorno what not and Artsack pops up.

​Type: Nagor...
Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh)
​I like this suggestion, although with a slight modification. 0:)

There are quite a few issuers that have multiple alternate names. For example, take "Fengtien Province" under China. Other names, based on history or coin-spellings, include "Fengtian", "Liaoning", and "Mukden". Now, imagine we included all those names in parenthesis--we would get:
  • Fengtien Province (Fengtian; Liaoning; Mukden)
  • [Or something like that.]

So... including every alternate name in parenthesis would not look that nice. However, what if, when we start typing a name, only the relevant name appears in parenthesis? That way, if we type 'L', we would simply get:
  • Fengtien Province (Liaoning)

Or when we type 'M', we would get this instead:
  • Fengtien Province (Mukden)

Of course, this would also effect Artsakh and Eswatini, with their alternate names.

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