Who is this? [solved]

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Dear fellow collectors,

Who is depicted here on this Egyptian 50-piastres coin?



The description now is "Cleopatra's head", but I'm convinced it's Queen Nefertari (wearing the White Vulture headdress).
But after my modification requests were rejected, I thought I would put it to the forum.

My reasoning was:
"Nefertari is almost the only queen that is shown wearing this vulture-headdress. She is highly educated and able to both read and write hieroglyphs, a very rare skill at the time. Something Egypt might put on display.
Cleopatra, on the other hand, is almost always portrayed in the Hellenic style (except in pop culture). Hollywood might like her, but it's my guess that she isn't very popular in Egypt, her being a big advocate of Greek culture. Nefertiti is almost always shown donning the blue 'cap crown'. Not her either."

The reason for rejection:
"after researching, i found what u said made sense, until i came across this image of Cleopatra which is indeed the picture imitated on the coin. what she is wearing is called Uraeus (with snake)"

Which to me seems incorrect.

Are there any Egyptologists among us who can shed light on the matter?


RM
There seems to be quite a few examples of reliefs of Cleopatra with the vulture headdress. Try this search in Google Books. This will cut through most of the crap since 95% of what is said on the web about Cleopatra is amateurish at best. But by saying this I don't mean that you should trust every book. Some crackpots believe that she was black and they get published by ... crackpot editors!
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Krause also says it's Cleopatra:

Here is a lifetime image (courtesy almrsal.com) of Cleopatra VII from Dendera in Egypt, wearing the vulture headdress combined with the crown of Hathor. According to Wikipedia the vulture headdress was worn by Egyptian royal women and female pharaohs from the 17th dynasty (ca. 1571-1540 BC) onward.
Cleopatra.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "Camerinvs"​There seems to be quite a few examples of reliefs of Cleopatra with the vulture headdress. Try this search in Google Books. This will cut through most of the crap since 95% of what is said on the web about Cleopatra is amateurish at best. But by saying this I don't mean that you should trust every book. Some crackpots believe that she was black and they get published by ... crackpot editors!


cleopatra was a descendant of ptolomy who was given control of egypt by alexander the great, she was most certainly of greek heritage and according to many descriptions was not the raving beauty that hollywood portrayed her to be, as for this coin i would say that it is nefertiti as cleopatras real profile was noted for her large nose
we do not own our coins, we are merely guardians of them for future generations.
Nefertiti is depicted on banknotes in her classic pose. The image on this coin is not as Nefertiti is commonly depictef. Her clasic beauty and headdress is very different from the depiction on this coin. Also, her and her husband, Akhenatun were neither one for much of anything classically egyptian. When I visited Egypt some years ago, our driver and our cook n Cairo took great pains to see if we wanted the current king Tut and the Cleopatra coin.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
An image of an Egyptian bimetal 5 pound pattern that depicts Queen Nefertiti exists. It can be seen on the worldofcoins.eu website. I think it is safe to say that it is Cleopatra VII on the 50 piastres.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "Oklahoman"​An image of an Egyptian bimetal 5 pound pattern that depicts Queen Nefertiti exists. It can be seen on the worldofcoins.eu website. I think it is safe to say that it is Cleopatra VII on the 50 piastres.
​Link please?
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
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Amer Salmeh
Dont have the link. Wouldnt know how to post it if I did. The website is worldofcoins.eu it has pages for the continents and nations. I found the thread and the image looking for information on the 50 piasters of Cleopatra.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
The question "Is it Cleopatra or Nefertiti" may well be misleading. It could also just be a generic picture of the Pharaonic &/or Ptolemaic past of Egypt. So, rather than a specific, historic queen, a generic depiction of any ancient queen. We would need to obtain from the Egyptian minting authorities the coins specifications ─probably written in Arabic─ to know for sure.

To a point made above by alfred1, a small correction: Ptolemy, one of the generals of Alexander "the Great", was not given Egypt by Alexander. He simply was quick enough to take hold of Alexander's body and take it to Egypt and carve for himself a "province" in the most easily defensible part of the Empire. Note that formally, Alexander IV, infant son of Alexander III "the Great", ruled while Ptolemy acted as regent over Egypt. That fiction was ended in 305 when the Ptolemies fully assumed their role as kings.
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I realized something. I went to worldofcoins.edu and searched egyptian pattern. The pattern is of Queen Nertiti not Queen Nefertari. I know I have confused the two. I still feel pretty good about it being Cleopatra as that is what I was told in Egypt. I double checked the Bank of Egypts website. They only seem to address banknotes. And all other sites seem to refer back to Krause or Numista...making the proof rather circular..Might someone who speaks arabic contact the Bank of Egypt and ask?
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
They wouldn't bother responding really
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
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Amer Salmeh

After having looked at some more examples of images of Cleopatra and Nefertari, I feel like agreeing with Camerinvs that it just is a generic deified depiction of a historic queen. It certainly isn't a copy of an existing statue, drawing or relief. There are some things on the coin that seem not authentic. Like the head slightly tilted upward. But more importantly, the position of the shoulders is wrong. If it was a copy of a relief or drawing then both shoulders should be visible. If it was a copy of a statue the vulture headdress should be larger. (Although I'm not sure about this last argument, but I couldn't find an example to prove the contrary.)

Some images of Cleopatra and Nefertari with their name present:

Cleopatra:

Nefertari:

So, as we can see, both queens have been on an Egyptian stamp (I've always believed there's some correlation between coin and stamp design; a lot of designers have done both). But here Cleopatra scores better: one image of her also lacks an earring (same as the coin) and also on the right where the hairline and the vulture's hindquarters meet it resembles more the Cleopatra image than Nefertari's.

I liked Oklahoman's remark that Egyptians refer to them as 'Tut & Cleopatra coins'.
That kind of sells it to me. Even though I still think it's a generic image of a queen. But if we have to give her a name, I, now, can agree with calling her Cleopatra.

Thank you everybody.


Roland.
Good research, Roland, and pretty perceptive art-historical analysis.
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