Addition of "Bullion coin" as a "Type of coin"

17 posts

This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista

Status: Rejected
Upvotes: 2
Downvotes: 0

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As the referee for Australia I occasionally hear and receive complains about the amount of bullion coins within the Australian catalog. Usually these members request a way to filter out these bullion coins, however currently there is no way to do so without filtering out other non-bullion coins. A solution I propose that should solve this issue is the addition of a new "Type of coin" in the coin creation and edit page. Currently Numista has six coin types which include: Unknown, Common coin, Circulating commemorative coin, Non circulating coin, Pattern, and Token. If a seventh type is added called something around the line of "Bullion coin", all the members who do not wish to scroll through all the bullion coins within the Australian and other catalogs when looking for a coin will no longer have to as they will have the option of unselecting bullion coins in the Advanced search.

Hope to here other's throughts and suggetions on this proposal and other solutions to this issue and hopfully the catalogue administrators can implement a solution to this issue.
Archaeology student and coin and medal collector
Check out my Instagram account @Australian_Coin_Info
https://instagram.com/australian_coin_info/
Good idea, however, we would have to come up with clear division - where will be a line of what is bullion and what is not?
Catalogue administrator
You could also do the same thing as a referee of Mexico has done and make a new sub-section in your country for them.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mexique-54.html#devise594
I think unchecking the "Commemorative coin" option would remove most of them, yes?
Quote: "Jarcek"​Good idea, however, we would have to come up with clear division - where will be a line of what is bullion and what is not?
Definition - released by the mint at more than face value?​
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
Quote: "pnightingale"
Quote: "Jarcek"​Good idea, however, we would have to come up with clear division - where will be a line of what is bullion and what is not?
​Definition - released by the mint at more than face value?​
​Ouch! x.(8

That is not very good though, because almost all face value circulating coins are also issued above face value, and even if it is a non circulating commemorative, copper-nickel commems are not bullion.
Here is my definition of what a bullion coin is, which largely overlaps with NCLT's definition, but has some distinguishing features:
1. legal tender
2. not meant for circulation
3. made with high-purity precious metal content (usually 90% or more)
4. have high or no mintage limits
5. may share a common theme, but do not commemorate a specific event
6. have simplified packaging - i.e., sold by the mint in rolls/tubes; may have BU finish and come in a capsule, but there is no box/CoA for individual coins

Here is how the Perth mint, which makes most of Australia's bullion, provides mintage documentation for the coins they make:

Numismatic Coins - http://www.perthmint.com.au/numismatic-mintages.aspx
- proof/colored/gilded/high-relief variants of bullion coins (basically, limited mintage collectors edition)
- commemorative NCLTs and various souvenir "coins"

Bullion Coins - http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment-bullion-bars-and-coins-mintages.aspx
- Big-name series - lunar, the KKK (koalas, kookaburras, kangaroos), emus, platypus, wedge-tailed eagle and a few others
- Bullion coins with privy marks - usually w/ a smaller mintage (1/10th) than regular bullion maximums
- Other bullion products - various other random Australian fauna: sharks, spiders, etc - many of them with pretty basic designs, business strikes (as opposed to big name series, which are all encapsulated BUs), and other semi-commemorative bullion

The Royal Australian Mint at Canberra also makes commemorates and bullion, but not nearly as much as the Perth mint.
HoH
Quote: "Jarcek"​Good idea, however, we would have to come up with clear division - where will be a line of what is bullion and what is not?
​I am unsure what other countries do but I know that the Australian Government specifically categorises certain coins as bullion. I will use an example of the three main types of silver coins within the Australian catalog to show how they are categorised. The first is this circulating silver coin (currently withdrawn). Its intended purpose was to circulate at the face value of 50 cents. The second type is this non-circulating silver coin. Although it is made from 1oz of pure silver its intended purpose is to be sold to collectors for a large and profitable premium ($100 AUD) over its bulion value (aprox $21 AUD). The third type is this non-circulating silver bullion coin. The intended purpose of this coin and other similar ones is to be sold to collectors and investors for around its bullion value. All these bullion coins are also produced solely by the Perth Mint and under a bullion act that was passed by the Australian Parliament.

So to properaaly answe your question, the way a bullion coin would be defined within the Australian catalog would be something around the lines of, 'a coin of precious metal struck by the Perth Mint as part of the bullion act'. Again I am unsure exactly how each different country catalog would define and differentiate between a bullion and a non-bullion coin, but just like Australia does I am sure that most of the bullion producing nations have a specific bullion coin program that can then be used to differentiate between a coin is a bullion coin and other types.
Archaeology student and coin and medal collector
Check out my Instagram account @Australian_Coin_Info
https://instagram.com/australian_coin_info/
Quote: "Idolenz"​You could also do the same thing as a referee of Mexico has done and make a new sub-section in your country for them.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mexique-54.html#devise594
​Although this method does work, it is not one I particularly like. This is mainly because the Australian catalog and the majority of other catalogs are split up by currency and/or time period. I feel that if I were to split the Australian catalog up in the same way as the Mexico catalog then this may break with the overall consistency of the Numista catalog. On top of this I feel that such a method would alter or even break the current integrity of the Australian catalog as I believe all coins of the Australian Dollar should all be listed together under the same banner and the same for other currencies.
Archaeology student and coin and medal collector
Check out my Instagram account @Australian_Coin_Info
https://instagram.com/australian_coin_info/
Quote: "nthn"​I think unchecking the "Commemorative coin" option would remove most of them, yes?
​I do not believe that this option would really work as by unchecking an option such as "Commemorative coin" would also cause for other non-bullion coins that a member may be trying to find to be hidden.
Archaeology student and coin and medal collector
Check out my Instagram account @Australian_Coin_Info
https://instagram.com/australian_coin_info/
No offense, but finding anything in Australia or Canada for that matter is quite hard task. They mint so many so fast.

The separate currency is not ideal solution, also defining new type is tricky.

Unchecking non-circulating coins makes them all dissappear, true, but not really a solution either.

I am puzzled.
Catalogue administrator
Currently it's done by currencies in other countries. Some even have separate currencies for patterns due to their big number. Not ideal maybe but currently this is how it's tackled
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
Maybe non-circulating (never intended to) precious metal coin minted post-???? (to be defined by referee)?
I don't think the distinction is always a clear one. Even with coins that are thoroughly understood to be "bullion coins" like the US Silver Eagle, there has been a weird blurring of lines. Silver Eagles are meant to be a way to invest in physical silver metal in an easily recognizable and verifiable form. The price ought to be "silver spot + $X" where the markup just represents the added value of a government-produced bullion coin. And yet there are certain years of Silver Eagle that carry significant "numismatic value" because the mintage was lower! It makes no sense to me at all. The whole point of a Silver Eagle (or Maple, or Koala, or Britannia, etc.) is that it's an ounce of silver, end of story.
Quote: "Jesse11"​I don't think the distinction is always a clear one. Even with coins that are thoroughly understood to be "bullion coins" like the US Silver Eagle, there has been a weird blurring of lines. Silver Eagles are meant to be a way to invest in physical silver metal in an easily recognizable and verifiable form. The price ought to be "silver spot + $X" where the markup just represents the added value of a government-produced bullion coin. And yet there are certain years of Silver Eagle that carry significant "numismatic value" because the mintage was lower! It makes no sense to me at all. The whole point of a Silver Eagle (or Maple, or Koala, or Britannia, etc.) is that it's an ounce of silver, end of story.
Perhaps, if we were all bullion investors and there was no year on bullion coins, designs never changed, and there were no variants (ms, proof, etc) or mint errors, it would be true. But, as soon as people start treating them as collectable items, it creates higher demand and prices change to reflect that. The whole reason mints create these variants is to keep people interested and buying ever more.
HoH
In the end, I think it is a good idea, but not doable.
Easy Hamstersolution.
  • All Coins with 31,1g or 15,5g of pure metal are bullion
  • The small rest of out of order sizes like the krugerrand can be marked by the user and the referee marks them als Bullion.
Main Referee for Hutt-River
Status changed to Rejected (Xavier, 9-Feb-2019, 22:27)

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