Ferdinand II. (Tirol) Thaler, fake or genuine ?

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Hi guys,

I have bought in auktion this thaler of Ferdinand II - Tirol. But I am not sure if it is fake or not. Because both sides of coin looks "used" but edge look "unused" and sharp, so I am little bit confused. What do you think about that ?
d = 40,3 mm
t = 2,5 mm
m = 28 - 29 g


I agree with your worries.
Do a search on Numista and compare the pictures and dimensions
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&l=&r=ferdinand+ii+tyrol
or https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&l=&r=ferdinand+ii+tirol
Did you try some silvertests?
If it is a valuable coin or a scarce one, it is possible it is a replica.
Did you pay much?
Is the seller trustworthy (positive feedback)?

Yours has no dots between comes and tirolis
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11306
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
No, I didnt make silver tests.But I think it silver... Cost was 140e. And it was bought in auction at most "famous" auction house in CZ. I know that there is many many, variants of this coin,... unfortunately.
return it
Quote: "SpuDy"​return it
​Hello colleagues
There are many variations of this coin, I will not give a reason to return - because the coin was from the stone trade auction so I would trust
Are shops in the Czech Republic selling replicas of old coins (not confusing for counterfeits) are mentioned by the seller that it is a replica
​The price is the right thaler and is often on offer
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=sale&sid=477&cid=13827&v=1

here is an example of a real coin without translation:
http://www.sberatel.com/diskuse/sberatel/tolar-ferdinand-ii-7071


Here is the number of auction houses and sellers:
https://www.google.cz/search?q=tolar+Ferdinanda+II.+-+Tyrolsko&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ684CZ685&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5oYGU5KnYAhUPEVAKHdgGAyQQsAQIQg&biw=1366&bih=637

Ahoj Ivan
Hello,
Interesting coin.
I would say it is this one https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces99227.html

However, as you mentioned, there are very many variants. Those thalers were produced by the rotating dies technique in Hall, and there are plenty of combinations of obverse-reverse.
Looking carefully in Moser Tursky, yours would be a combination of obverse of MT#266, legend ending with a rosette, and reverse of MT#272. The latter is the only one depicted with no punctuation at all on the reverse legend.

You coin looks slightly bent, which fits with the technique. But for edges, I lack experience on those. You have to show it to a coin dealer used to handle those. But I would trust the auction house (maybe ask them :)

There is a die crack on the obverse going from the armour to the letter E of FERD that I have never seen yet.

Good luck in your research. Try a density measure. Quite easy to do. It should be 875 silver.
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Referee for Austria-Habsburg, Austrian Netherlands, Austrian States, Bohemia, Silesia.
Traducteur, demandez en cas de besoin ! Translator, ask if you need !
Guys, thank you all for responses. Yes, I will definitelly ask for authenticity in auction house which from I have bought it....,

I have calculated density: ~8937 kg/m^3 .
I have seen a lot of pictures of this coin. But yours is the only one with a flower left of the crown.
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Yes, that is true, also me, lot of types but no one with that flower.
Out of 29 types pictured in Moser Tursky, 5 have the rosette. The author considers those as older types (closer to 1577). The other 4 have a smaller bust, the crown does not break the circle on top.

Your density is a bit too low, just that of copper. Did you try this ? https://fr.numista.com/numisdoc/measure-a-coin-s-density-27.html

With .875 silver, you should get 10.3.
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Referee for Austria-Habsburg, Austrian Netherlands, Austrian States, Bohemia, Silesia.
Traducteur, demandez en cas de besoin ! Translator, ask if you need !
Quote: "Ecapoe"​Out of 29 types pictured in Moser Tursky, 5 have the rosette. The author considers those as older types (closer to 1577). The other 4 have a smaller bust, the crown does not break the circle on top.

​Your density is a bit too low, just that of copper. Did you try this ? https://fr.numista.com/numisdoc/measure-a-coin-s-density-27.html

​With .875 silver, you should get 10.3.
​I didnt try that method, I am going to try it. But I am not sure how much we can rely on that it will be exactly silver .875. Because I think that sometimes in that times they put there less silver as they officially claim...
Quote: "LEÓNIDÁS"
Quote: "Ecapoe"​Out of 29 types pictured in Moser Tursky, 5 have the rosette. The author considers those as older types (closer to 1577). The other 4 have a smaller bust, the crown does not break the circle on top.
​​
​​Your density is a bit too low, just that of copper. Did you try this ? https://fr.numista.com/numisdoc/measure-a-coin-s-density-27.html
​​
​​With .875 silver, you should get 10.3.
​​I didnt try that method, I am going to try it. But I am not sure how much we can rely on that it will be exactly silver .875. Because I think that sometimes in that times they put there less silver as they officially claim...
​So I have tried this method and result is ~9.5. But I didnt have so precision scale, my is on 1g. So probably it is not so exact.
buy some accurate scales if you are spending that much on coins

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