Example of the problem with the value system as it currently stands [solved]

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This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista

Status: Implemented
Upvotes: 3
Downvotes: 0

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I recently acquired through a swap a 1948 East Africa 50 cents. The values across the grades show something like this (not sure how this will come out):

G VG F VF XF AU UNC
1948 1.45 0.79 2.22

Clearly this cannot be correct and there needs to be some way of editing. Also, it is my opinion that the person best placed to correct these errors is the country referee. Your thoughts, please?

Edit: after posting, I saw that the message did not appear as I had entered it (a possible bug) so let me show the issue this way:

G
VG
F = 1.45
VF = 0.79
XF = 2.22
AU
UNC
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
I see such things frequently. IMHO the information is valuable even as it stands. In this case you see that the price for VF-XF range of grades varies between 0,79 and 1,45. This information is much better than nothing.
(By comparison, uCoin has only one price for all grades. For many coins this does not make sense at all.)
ūūūūū
This bit is semi-related, but I think that for currently circulating coins, face value should be the minimum value available for input. I've seen a few commemorative 2 euro pages with 1.something values, and it certainly seems to stick out as much.

Anyway, I agree but what should referees do about such a values discrepancy though? We can't just rectify it to be a random value somewhere between the preceding and following grades' values (if they exist), and if we consult SCWC to correct the error, then we might as well just fill out the entire catalogue with (often wildly exaggerated) NGC values.
I can't be certain what would be the best solution which was why I asked for any suggestions but to leave it as it is 'because it is the only system we have' only serves to devalue Numista as a credible catalogue since the figures quoted are quite obviously incorrect. If we are not able to improve the system that we currently have then my suggestion would be to remove it rather than continue to publish erroneous data.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
I've seen several similar examples Rick but remain optimistic that as more and more values are entered then it will become more grounded in reality. I'm not yet ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater and give up on what may be a very useful feature down the road.

Even the most respected of publications are at least a year or more out of date by the time they are released. The Numista system has a much more "in the moment" feel to it which I like. The problem is that it was launched with a lot of confusion over what exactly contributes a buying price. Should it include postage costs? What value do you put on a coin bought as part of a lot?

Where it's all going to fall apart will be when the value of silver starts to rise to a more realistic level. There's a lot of debate where exactly the sweet spot is but when it costs around $25 per ounce to extract, refine and mint the stuff, $14 isn't it. A not unreasonable increase of 100% is going to mean that the majority of silver coins are still going to be priced using historical data at around half of their current "real world" value.

I don't think the day will ever arrive when I'd find myself using it to value a coin but it is interesting to know how my fellow collectors value one.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
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I find the new system fascinating - from my personal perspective I find NGC prices a useful guide, and of the 54% of my coins that are now priced from the Numista pricing system around 90% of the values of these coins are uncannily similar to the NGC ones (ignoring the difference between $ and € of course).

I have noticed a few others that also have a discrepancy between some of the grades, where a lower grade is priced higher than a higher grade or visa versa - this is to be expected (especially on coins where the value is low) as the prices are entered by Numista members; no one is confirming the grade of this coin, some people under-grade others over-grade, so in reality the price is probably correct; in this case €0.80-€2.10 F-XF, compare that to NGC $0.20-$2.00

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/east-africa-50-cents-km-30-1948-1952-cuid-1041792-duid-1244239

Pretty accurate at XF 2.00 $ or € or £, who cares, because below that is just the price you want to pay or the price the guy selling it wants to have! And I am sure that when the Numista prices update for the AU & UNC values they will be around the 5.00-7.00 mark just like NGC.
It was actually accepted (but not implemented yet) that lower grade cannot have higher price than high grade and that circulating coins will always have lowest price of their actual monetary value.
Catalogue administrator
Quote: "Jarcek"​It was actually accepted (but not implemented yet) that lower grade cannot have higher price than high grade and that circulating coins will always have lowest price of their actual monetary value.
​That sounds like a sensible fix, just need to wait for its implementation.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
Quote: "Jarcek"​It was actually accepted (but not implemented yet) that lower grade cannot have higher price than high grade and that circulating coins will always have lowest price of their actual monetary value.
​Lower grades can, in principle, have a higher price than high grades, though it's a very rare situation; for example, IIRC, some of the scarcer US classic commemoratives are worth more in VF than in AU and (low) UNC, because they're so hard to find in such low grades (due to seeing almost no circulation).

(It's a more common thing in grades below G, but the Numista system doesn't yet go that far.)
Status changed to Implemented (Xavier, 25-Aug-2023, 11:12)

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