Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 10-Apr-2019, 15:22
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Posted: 10-Apr-2019, 15:22
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Colector
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 10-Apr-2019, 23:52
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Posted: 10-Apr-2019, 23:52
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Welcome to Numista!!!
Fine coin!!!
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Ducatx
Joined: 30-Oct-2013
Posts: 3809
Posted: 11-Apr-2019, 08:23
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Posted: 11-Apr-2019, 08:23
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Welcome ;)
Yes really nice coin
How did you get it, without wishing to be indiscreet ?
"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.
Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite
Ducatx
Joined: 30-Oct-2013
Posts: 3809
Posted: 11-Apr-2019, 08:27
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Posted: 11-Apr-2019, 08:27
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"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.
Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 11:41
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Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 11:41
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Coin from a private collection. I write attribution on it.
I am interested in more information on this coin, and whether it went through auctions?
Colector
apuking
Joined: 31-Oct-2012
Posts: 8689
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 15:35
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Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 15:35
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Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 15:59
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Edited: 17-Apr-2019, 16:01
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 15:59
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Edited: 17-Apr-2019, 16:01
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 20:49
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Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 20:49
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I also read Wikipedia about the graph and its territory. Also I can not find information about selling this coin at least somewhere.
What do you think is the degree of rarity of this coin? And in what limits can there be a price for such a numismatic unit?
Colector
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 20:54
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Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 20:54
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Quote: "apuking"Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
Yes, indeed, a coin is dug out of the ground, it is noticeable on the surface of the coin and characteristic coating.
Colector
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 23:46
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Posted: 17-Apr-2019, 23:46
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If it is indeed that rare, you should better contact a specialized auction house....
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:49
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:49
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Quote: "PetrusAscanus"If it is indeed that rare, you should better contact a specialized auction house....
What auction would you advise to chat with online?
Who is better to address, who can be competent in such rare coins?
Colector
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:53
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:53
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Quote: "Ducatx"Looks very very rare :
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/german-states-hanau-münzenberg-ducat-km-62-1638-cuid-1156867-duid-1352410
Directories do not even have a photo of what it looks like. There is no circulation, no degree of rarity, no price!
Which specialists would you advise to contact?
Colector
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:54
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 09:54
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Quote: "apuking"Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
Which specialists would you advise to contact?
Colector
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 10:22
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 10:39
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 10:22
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 10:39
NGC has a grading service, but I do not know if they give values.
Here in Belgium we have Jean Elsen
https://www.elsen.eu/
Or Peter Eyckmans (editor of the belgian Morin catalog)
https://www.thecoinhouse-shop.be/
https://www.thecoinhouse-auctions.eu/
Or many places: :
https://www.kuenker.de/en
https://www.kuenker.de/en/kontakt
I am convinced that there are trustworthy aution houses in other countriess
Did you have it tested for gold (jeweler) ?
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Didi99
Joined: 9-Mar-2019
Posts: 615
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 19:20
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 22:49
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 19:20
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 22:49
apuking
Joined: 31-Oct-2012
Posts: 8689
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:31
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 22:32
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:31
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Edited: 18-Apr-2019, 22:32
Such a coin I would definitly recommen to better contact a German Auction House if you wish to sell it.
Some of the best known and most trustworthy German Auction Houses:
Künker
https://www.kuenker.de/en
Dr Busso Peus Nachf.
https://www.peus-muenzen.de/en/
Auktionen Münzhandlung Sonntag
https://www.ams-stuttgart.de/
Gorny & Mosch
https://www.gmcoinart.de/
Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün eK
http://www.hdmhg.de/
Leipziger Münzhandlung Höhn
https://www.leipziger-muenzhandlung.de/
Münzen & Medaillen GmbH
https://muenzenundmedaillen-gmbh.de/de/de_aktuelles.html
Westfählische AUktions Gesellschaft
https://www.wag-auktionen.de/sites-en/index.htm
There are others too but these are all very trustworthy and should be able to reach the highest price for such a coin.
For the rarest coins I recommend to sell it at auction houses duirectly from where the coin is from.
Best regards and good luck with selling it,
Paul
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
apuking
Joined: 31-Oct-2012
Posts: 8689
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:35
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:35
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Please also know, Auction houses will give you what the coin sold for - 15-25% which they will keep for themselves.
Still on such a rare coin it makes much more sense to sell it at such an auction house.
What it will make, that is hard to say but its surely is valuable. Typically rare German coins will not sell for unbelievable amounts such as rare US coins but still Im quite certain that this coin even in this quality can make 2.500 € to even maybe quite a lot more.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Salaction_old
Joined: 2-Apr-2017
Posts: 438
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:48
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 22:48
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Would never sell it, could stare it whole day! Awesome coin!
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 23:13
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Posted: 18-Apr-2019, 23:13
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Quote: "Salaction", could stare it whole day! Awesome coin!
I agree
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 18:29
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Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 18:29
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Thanks for the help! When the result will be reported here.
Colector
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 19:24
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Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 19:24
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Degree of rarity > Number of known eksemplar
R* > 1
R8 > 2-3
R7 > 4-6
R6 > 7-25
R5 > 26-120
R4 > 121-600
R3 > 601-3000
R2 > 3001-15 000
R1 > 15 001-80 000
R > 80 000-400 000
--- > 400 000 - >
In which tape is this coin?
Who can write prices in front of each level?
Colector
Salaction_old
Joined: 2-Apr-2017
Posts: 438
Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 20:28
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Posted: 19-Apr-2019, 20:28
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Quote: "Cthusq1"Degree of rarity > Number of known eksemplar
R* > 1
R8 > 2-3
R7 > 4-6
R6 > 7-25
R5 > 26-120
R4 > 121-600
R3 > 601-3000
R2 > 3001-15 000
R1 > 15 001-80 000
R > 80 000-400 000
--- > 400 000 - >
In which tape is this coin?
Who can write prices in front of each level?
Just contact an auction house mate!
Leitwolf
Joined: 1-Oct-2013
Posts: 179
Posted: 21-Apr-2019, 13:30
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Edited: 21-Apr-2019, 13:31
Posted: 21-Apr-2019, 13:30
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Edited: 21-Apr-2019, 13:31
Quote: "apuking"Such a coin I would definitly recommen to better contact a German Auction House if you wish to sell it.
Some of the best known and most trustworthy German Auction Houses:
Künker
https://www.kuenker.de/en
Dr Busso Peus Nachf.
https://www.peus-muenzen.de/en/
Auktionen Münzhandlung Sonntag
https://www.ams-stuttgart.de/
Gorny & Mosch
https://www.gmcoinart.de/
Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün eK
http://www.hdmhg.de/
Leipziger Münzhandlung Höhn
https://www.leipziger-muenzhandlung.de/
Münzen & Medaillen GmbH
https://muenzenundmedaillen-gmbh.de/de/de_aktuelles.html
Westfählische AUktions Gesellschaft
https://www.wag-auktionen.de/sites-en/index.htm
There are others too but these are all very trustworthy and should be able to reach the highest price for such a coin.
For the rarest coins I recommend to sell it at auction houses duirectly from where the coin is from.
Best regards and good luck with selling it,
Paul
I recommend to contact two different auctions houses: Künker (largest and best known auction house in Germany) and Dr. Busso Peus Nachf. (because it should be firm in coins of Hesse - of which Hanau-Münzenberg today is a part of).
You could also contact the local "Frankfurter Numismatische Gesellschaft" in order to get more information. Perhaps they have an expert in Hanau-Münzenberg-coins among their members:
https://www.numismatische-gesellschaft.de/index.php/vereine/liste/110-fran.html
Should be KM# 62 (no picture in KM, but description fits to Cthusq1's coin).
Perhaps you can find more (written) information here:
Hamburger Beiträge zur Numismatik (HBN), Band 6, Ausgaben 18/19 (1964/65) - Dorfmann, B.: Unedierter Dukat 1638 des Grafen Philipp Moritz von Hanau-Münzenberg (1612-38) · 153 & Tf.16
By the way: Did the owner buy the coin or did he find it by himself?
Cthusq1
Joined: 10-Apr-2019
Posts: 19
Posted: 29-Apr-2019, 18:45
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Posted: 29-Apr-2019, 18:45
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Pricing according to the passes through the world's specialized auctions compared to similar rare-earth ducats HANAU-MÜNZENBERG of the same period of 1637-1663, which correspond to the same degree of rarity of R8 (2-3 eks.), ranges from 7 000 to 30,000 dollars.
Coin price: 20 000$
Colector
Topic locked
(Numista Robot, 7-Aug-2019, 22:43)
Status changed to Solved
(Cthusq1, 7-Jul-2021, 23:06)
Status changed to Opened
(Cthusq1, 7-Jul-2021, 23:07)
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