Help evaluate Gold Ducat 1638 Hanau Munsenberg

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Colector
Welcome to Numista!!!
Fine coin!!!
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Welcome ;)

Yes really nice coin :love:

How did you get it, without wishing to be indiscreet ?
"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.


Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite
Looks very very rare :

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/german-states-hanau-münzenberg-ducat-km-62-1638-cuid-1156867-duid-1352410
"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.


Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite
Coin from a private collection. I write attribution on it.
I am interested in more information on this coin, and whether it went through auctions?
Colector
Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Philipp Moritz 1612-38
Hanau Münzenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Moritz,_Count_of_Hanau-M%C3%BCnzenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanau-M%C3%BCnzenberg
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
I also read Wikipedia about the graph and its territory. Also I can not find information about selling this coin at least somewhere.
What do you think is the degree of rarity of this coin? And in what limits can there be a price for such a numismatic unit?
Colector
Quote: "apuking"​Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
​The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
​Yes, indeed, a coin is dug out of the ground, it is noticeable on the surface of the coin and characteristic coating.
Colector
If it is indeed that rare, you should better contact a specialized auction house....
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Quote: "PetrusAscanus"​If it is indeed that rare, you should better contact a specialized auction house....
​What auction would you advise to chat with online?
Who is better to address, who can be competent in such rare coins?
Colector
Quote: "Ducatx"​Looks very very rare :

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/german-states-hanau-münzenberg-ducat-km-62-1638-cuid-1156867-duid-1352410
​Directories do not even have a photo of what it looks like. There is no circulation, no degree of rarity, no price!
Which specialists would you advise to contact?
Colector
Quote: "apuking"​Cannot seem to find any sold in the past 100 years at auctions.
​The wavy surface suggest to me that this coin was a ground or detecting find.
​Which specialists would you advise to contact?
Colector
NGC has a grading service, but I do not know if they give values.
Here in Belgium we have Jean Elsen
https://www.elsen.eu/
Or Peter Eyckmans (editor of the belgian Morin catalog)
https://www.thecoinhouse-shop.be/
https://www.thecoinhouse-auctions.eu/
Or many places: : https://www.kuenker.de/en
https://www.kuenker.de/en/kontakt

I am convinced that there are trustworthy aution houses in other countriess

Did you have it tested for gold (jeweler) ?
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Top class stuff:love:
You should contact heritage auctions:
https://www.ha.com/inquire-about-selling.s?ic=Tab-ToSell-SellInquiry-040814
As i live in France I would try Gadoury or Cgb too
https://www.gadoury.com/en/contacts​​​​​​
https://www.cgbfr.com/sell-coins-banknotes-collecting.html
Such a coin I would definitly recommen to better contact a German Auction House if you wish to sell it.

Some of the best known and most trustworthy German Auction Houses:

Künker
https://www.kuenker.de/en

Dr Busso Peus Nachf.
https://www.peus-muenzen.de/en/

Auktionen Münzhandlung Sonntag
https://www.ams-stuttgart.de/

Gorny & Mosch
https://www.gmcoinart.de/

Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün eK
http://www.hdmhg.de/

Leipziger Münzhandlung Höhn
https://www.leipziger-muenzhandlung.de/

Münzen & Medaillen GmbH
https://muenzenundmedaillen-gmbh.de/de/de_aktuelles.html

Westfählische AUktions Gesellschaft
https://www.wag-auktionen.de/sites-en/index.htm

There are others too but these are all very trustworthy and should be able to reach the highest price for such a coin.

For the rarest coins I recommend to sell it at auction houses duirectly from where the coin is from.

Best regards and good luck with selling it,

Paul
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Please also know, Auction houses will give you what the coin sold for - 15-25% which they will keep for themselves.
Still on such a rare coin it makes much more sense to sell it at such an auction house.

What it will make, that is hard to say but its surely is valuable. Typically rare German coins will not sell for unbelievable amounts such as rare US coins but still Im quite certain that this coin even in this quality can make 2.500 € to even maybe quite a lot more.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Would never sell it, could stare it whole day! Awesome coin!
Quote: "Salaction"​, could stare it whole day! Awesome coin!
​I agree
B)
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Thanks for the help! When the result will be reported here.
Colector
Degree of rarity > Number of known eksemplar
R* > 1
R8 > 2-3
R7 > 4-6
R6 > 7-25
R5 > 26-120
R4 > 121-600
R3 > 601-3000
R2 > 3001-15 000
R1 > 15 001-80 000
R > 80 000-400 000
--- > 400 000 - >
In which tape is this coin?
Who can write prices in front of each level?
Colector
Quote: "Cthusq1"​Degree of rarity > Number of known eksemplar
​R* > 1
​R8 > 2-3
​R7 > 4-6
​R6 > 7-25
​R5 > 26-120
​R4 > 121-600
​R3 > 601-3000
​R2 > 3001-15 000
​R1 > 15 001-80 000
​R > 80 000-400 000
​--- > 400 000 - >
​In which tape is this coin?
​Who can write prices in front of each level?
​Just contact an auction house mate!
Quote: "apuking"​Such a coin I would definitly recommen to better contact a German Auction House if you wish to sell it.

​Some of the best known and most trustworthy German Auction Houses:

​Künker
https://www.kuenker.de/en

​Dr Busso Peus Nachf.
https://www.peus-muenzen.de/en/

​Auktionen Münzhandlung Sonntag
https://www.ams-stuttgart.de/

​Gorny & Mosch
https://www.gmcoinart.de/

​Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün eK
http://www.hdmhg.de/

​Leipziger Münzhandlung Höhn
https://www.leipziger-muenzhandlung.de/

​Münzen & Medaillen GmbH
https://muenzenundmedaillen-gmbh.de/de/de_aktuelles.html

​Westfählische AUktions Gesellschaft
https://www.wag-auktionen.de/sites-en/index.htm

​There are others too but these are all very trustworthy and should be able to reach the highest price for such a coin.

​For the rarest coins I recommend to sell it at auction houses duirectly from where the coin is from.

​Best regards and good luck with selling it,

​Paul

I recommend to contact two different auctions houses: Künker (largest and best known auction house in Germany) and Dr. Busso Peus Nachf. (because it should be firm in coins of Hesse - of which Hanau-Münzenberg today is a part of).

You could also contact the local "Frankfurter Numismatische Gesellschaft" in order to get more information. Perhaps they have an expert in Hanau-Münzenberg-coins among their members:
https://www.numismatische-gesellschaft.de/index.php/vereine/liste/110-fran.html

Should be KM# 62 (no picture in KM, but description fits to Cthusq1's coin).

Perhaps you can find more (written) information here:
Hamburger Beiträge zur Numismatik (HBN), Band 6, Ausgaben 18/19 (1964/65) - Dorfmann, B.: Unedierter Dukat 1638 des Grafen Philipp Moritz von Hanau-Münzenberg (1612-38) · 153 & Tf.16

By the way: Did the owner buy the coin or did he find it by himself?
Pricing according to the passes through the world's specialized auctions compared to similar rare-earth ducats HANAU-MÜNZENBERG of the same period of 1637-1663, which correspond to the same degree of rarity of R8 (2-3 eks.), ranges from 7 000 to 30,000 dollars.

Coin price: 20 000$
Colector
Topic locked (Numista Robot, 7-Aug-2019, 22:43)
Status changed to Solved (Cthusq1, 7-Jul-2021, 23:06)
Status changed to Opened (Cthusq1, 7-Jul-2021, 23:07)

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